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Topic: Gimmicks and Gadges............. |
Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 24 Dec 2014 10:20 am |
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Got to thinking during a quiet time the other day.
How did we old timers get this far and last this long working stage, radio, television and dance halls without all of the new gimmicks and gadgets?
What with arm rests, elbow rests, all of the stomp boxes and such being invented with each passing day,
how in the world did we make it?
How did JERRY BYRD get such sweet music that made him HIGH in DEMAND for so many years using nothing more than an antique Bakelite single string 6/7 string guitar? He had a foot volume pedal and nothing more.
What do you think about this point? |
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Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2014 11:55 am
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As for Jerry, not only had he mastered "touch and tone", he played state of the art steels of the day. As for me, I just use my Peavey Vegas 400 from 1983 for pedal steel and my Peavey Classic 30 for non-pedal. For both, I use A Boss Tuner Pedal, and, back in the 70's a Korg tuner. IMHO, digital tuners are the greatest boon to stringed instrument players and have stopped a lot of arguments bout who's in tune in a band.
_________________
Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8 |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 24 Dec 2014 12:04 pm
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The tools for making music are simply tools. Music has been made for thousands of years before electric guitar was developed, so, in a sense it a gimmick or gadget compared to orchestral instruments or drums, which are probably the first instrument besides the voice.
People will continue to make music, beautiful music, and they'll even do it with computers. But a melody is timeless. You old timers don't have all the rights to melody! 
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 24 Dec 2014 3:59 pm
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Ray! No! It's all in the mood of the stage lighting.
That's always been the secret!!! |
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Rick Schacter
From:
Portland, Or.
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Posted 24 Dec 2014 11:49 pm Re: Gimmicks and Gadges.............
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| Ray Montee wrote: |
What do you think about this point? |
Jerry Byrd might not have used what you call "gadgets".
But Les Paul not only used them, he probably invented many of them.
He absolutely was not lacking anything as a musician.
He was brilliant.
**Even you use reverb, Ray.
Who gets to decide what is an acceptable gadget?
***Merry Christmas, Ray!  |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2014 2:36 am
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| Quote: |
| People will continue to make music, beautiful music, and they'll even do it with computers. But a melody is timeless. |
I gotta agree with Mike, here. But there IS some kind of genetically-mandated, irresistible "packrat" urge built into mankind. We just HAVE to keep trying new stuff, owning the newest stuff. Talk to a golfer for pete's sakes, talk to a BOW-hunter...
In the 1980's there was a giant explosion in music of digitized this and digitized that. It was new! It was better! It was cleaner and you could have 256 tracks to record on! It took a while for the whiz-bang addiction to start fading away, (it lingers) and attempts are made to filter through all the tech stuff and pick out what didn't work.
And a whole lot of musicians began putting out Pro Tool'd cut 'n' pasted "songs", then they actually had to learn them OFF THE RECORDING because they actually never had played their own songs straight through from beginning to end! (Can we say... "lip-synch?") 
And nowadays there is great cachet among bands who claim to record everything live to tape just like their heroes did... with sqwoncky old beater tube mikes, tube amps pushed to the barf-tone stage, carefully relic'd guitars and clothes and hair that looks like they and the guitars had been pulled behind a truck for a while. The old days are always better. But I think it's pretty cool that anybody who wants to record can, and many time a band in a real studio end up using their demo track in some places, because the living room quality really is that good. |
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Bill C. Buntin
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Posted 25 Dec 2014 3:46 am
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Ray I think that players should learn with the basics. Instrument/amp. Whatever the choice. Learn to make pretty music with your instrument only. Then add the gadgets.
I used to think if I didn't have the identical gear to (insert player's name here) that I would not be able to play well.
Reece Anderson straightened me out on this. He said to me 20 years ago to not worry about all the "stuff" and concentrate on the guitar. |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2014 9:44 am
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It might be helpful to reflect on one of the most basic gadgets we use, the pickup… remember Bob Dunn having to magnetize his strings before each show to even get the pickup to work on his acoustic. I'll bet he would have loved the sound and convenience of a modern pickup back then.
I agree with Mike Neer… it's all just tools as means to an end.
Some folks enjoy all the tastes and flavors available with some experimentation- I'm thinking of Buddy E in the late '70s… and some are happy to stick to an amp and a wire. Much beautiful music results from both approaches.
_________________
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
www.musicfarmstudio.com |
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David Hartley
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Posted 25 Dec 2014 11:02 am Gadgets...
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I love gadgets. Anything new that comes out that I like, I want it!
As for the steel, I think I've been lucky enough to have the best amp, reverb and delay pedals available at the time, as long as I like it, I will use it.
I still love the old players. If the gadgets were around in their day, I think they would be like most of us and using technology too. A good player can still make music using anything.
My opinion.
Good thread Ray.
Hot toddy for me then bed, what a time to get a cold.  |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 25 Dec 2014 8:51 pm
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Sure you can show up in a recording studio with just an amp and steel guitar so to speak and yeah I get it! Everyone knows the tone is in the pickin' hand but that special mood, that extra something you need to define songs of varying genre in a gig venue can't be done with a plain old amp, a steel guitar and just your hands. Yeah I'm talking small potatoes here not playing with a Star.
So here are the things that your hands can't do!
1. An overdrive/distortion fx to give your hillbilly rock a little moody pzazz.
2. A delay fx, mostly for reverb because amp reverb sucks.
3. A high-pass and low-pass filter fx, to get that 2 completely different sweet spot tones and punch each deserves because I switch from Steel to guitar and back again and I only want to turn one knob instead of redoing the amp settings every time I change instruments.
I wouldn't want to leave home without those fx.
PS: It wouldn't hurt if a Steel player showed up with his own stage lighting fx in small venues.
Just switch the lights on during your intros solos and endings.  |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2014 10:27 pm
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| Bo Legg wrote: |
3. A high-pass and low-pass filter fx, to get that 2 completely different sweet spot tones and punch each deserves because I switch from Steel to guitar and back again and I only want to turn one knob instead of redoing the amp settings every time I change instruments.
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A Fulltone GT-500 has quite a bit of (fancy inductor based ) EQ on it, which makes it pretty handy when you're running the same amp for steel and six-string. It also gets the Telecaster up to "steel" output levels, so they match. That and an A/B switch and you're in business. Then it has a second button with even more EQ for the "dirt" side.
I'm sure other stomp boxen have this; that's just the one I know best. |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 26 Dec 2014 12:54 am
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Sorry Ray I'm not trying to hijack your topic but I have to agree with Dave.
To Les's thread I will respond with pics of my Fx and amp and light I now use when I play my Stage One in small venues.
this Kustom wav stereo amp with 2 10" speakers set on clean channel (mono) with none of the built in effects on.
stage lighting for steel
American DJ Mega Bar 50RGB RC
LED Light Bar With Remote Control Sound Active
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Bob Russell
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2014 3:37 pm
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Paul Franklin would sound better than most of us on an Esteban flat-top with a raised nut. He uses effects because he deems them necessary to get sounds he wants and can't get without effects.
Musicians use what they need to get the sounds they want. Who are we to judge?
_________________
Lots of stringy things, many of them slidey. |
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Scott D. Smith
From:
Bedford,Indiana
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Posted 27 Dec 2014 3:51 am
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| When I first started playing and a few years after I used the amp only . Later I added a peavey profex. At a gig one night the profex broke down. Still had a couple sets to finish,so I just ran through the amp only as I did before to finish up.Well.......it was a bit of a struggle the rest of the gig. I realized I had become dependent on the effects and gotten lazy with my playing skills. I now use two stomp boxes,reverb & delay and add them when I feel Like it's needed.Which is probably still to often. |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2014 8:30 am
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I was very late into the “Effects†deal...about 40 years late, but am glad I finally did...I think there’s a difference between effects and gimmicks and gimmicks I think is something I’d stay away from...to me an effect enhances and a gimmick is simply that a gimmick, like maybe getting your steel to sound like a dobro or wait, maybe I’d do that...Anyhow...I love the addition of the Profex ll and the Li’l Izzy and a second amp too, these things enhance my sound...now if only they’d hit a few more correct strings  
_________________
Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
https://www.youtube.com/@steelinatune
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
*2021 Rittenberry, "The Concord" D10 9x9
*1977 Blue Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom 8x6
https://msapedalsteels.com
http://rittenberrysteelguitars.com
https://www.telonics.com/index.php
https://www.p2pamps.com
https://www.quilterlabs.com |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 27 Dec 2014 9:13 am
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Over the years I found this one simple unit worked better for me than all the other pedal boards combined…
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Walter Bowden
From:
Wilmington, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2014 1:37 pm
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Didn't Alvino Rey use an early version of what we call a "talk box" to make his steel guitar "sing?"
_________________
Emmons S10, p/p, Nashville 112, Zion 50 tele style guitar, Gibson LP Classic w/Vox AC30, Fender Deluxe De Ville and a Rawdon-Hall classical |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2014 1:42 pm
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Mt Twin's reverb, and the Echoplex I got from it's inventor, Forumite Don Dixon. Dat's it! I love the sound of the instrument!
Last edited by John Billings on 27 Dec 2014 2:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Walter Bowden
From:
Wilmington, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2014 1:45 pm
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Didn't Alvino Rey use an early version of what we call a "talk box" to make his steel guitar "sing?"
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Emmons S10, p/p, Nashville 112, Zion 50 tele style guitar, Gibson LP Classic w/Vox AC30, Fender Deluxe De Ville and a Rawdon-Hall classical |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 27 Dec 2014 2:15 pm
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| Quote: |
| Didn't Alvino Rey use an early version of what we call a "talk box" to make his steel guitar "sing?" |
Yes, his wife would be off stage wearing a "throat mic". She would mouth the words as Alvino played the melody on his steel, and the "talking steel" sound came though the amp. The guy was a genius! By the way, he was also a master of the doo-wah tone control trick, bar slams, and many other cool techniques that have become a lost art in today's world of cloned steel guitarists.
As far as effects, I go through periods, sometimes years, of building up my effects... delay, chorus, black box (not really an effect), powered volume pedal, and other gadgets I think I need... and then I'll play a gig with just bare bones, the steel, the amp, and a passive volume pedal and I'll like the sound! So it's back to the basics for a while, Within a few months I start adding gadgets again... 
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 27 Dec 2014 3:54 pm
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
The tools for making music are simply tools. Music has been made for thousands of years before electric guitar was developed, so, in a sense it a gimmick or gadget compared to orchestral instruments or drums, which are probably the first instrument besides the voice.
People will continue to make music, beautiful music, and they'll even do it with computers. But a melody is timeless. You old timers don't have all the rights to melody! |
Mike, Frank Zappa did most of his last writing with Synclavier. It could NOT be played by a human. Not needed, but further proof that the man was a genius.
Ray, everything is an effect. You play with fingerpicks? They're an effect, you know. Volume pedal? Effect. Your cables, are an effect. A good musician can use any effects, and sound fine. Just a means to an end. Waylon Jennings, without his phase shifter?
Willy, without weed? Me, sober? |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2014 4:26 pm
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| Frank was a friend of mine. Stunning person! Miss him! |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 27 Dec 2014 4:42 pm
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| Skipper, the answer is very simple. A gifted steel guitarist can make any steel guitar sing, from one string stretched across a plank to the fanciest model, and you and Jerry are two of the best. |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 27 Dec 2014 7:35 pm
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| Quote: |
Didn't Alvino Rey use an early version of what we call a "talk box" to make his steel guitar "sing?"
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Yes, and here it is..
http://vimeo.com/19356774 |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2014 10:13 pm
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Central heating was probably bitterly opposed by some of our ancestors, too
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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