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Topic: Thumb/Index or Thumb/Middle for Speed Picking? |
Justin Emmert
From:
Greensboro, NC
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Posted 23 Dec 2014 6:07 am |
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I've been playing steel for about a year now and began to work through Jeff Newman's No Speed Limit series last night.
Jeff is showing to alternate between thumb and middle finger on playing single note scales. I've previously worked on some similar exercises that I've seen on Youtube (i.e. Mickey Adams material)and some of those guys seem to prefer Thumb/Index alternate picking.
I know it's probably up to what the individual is comfortable with, but I can't help think that Jeff had a reason for this. Are there any advantages/disadvantages to either option? What do you use? |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 23 Dec 2014 6:38 am
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Everyone's body has slightly different geometry. Many folks have a legitimate reason for whether ABC (Emmons) or CBA (Day) pedal arrangement works better for them. Same goes for how we use the thumb and a finger for rapid fire speedpicking.
Buddy Emmons has gotten great mileage out of thumb-middle. I believe Jeff Newman and many others have as well. In the forty or so years I've been at this, I've tried just about everything and thumb-middle just wasn't comfortable for me. I seem to have better coordination between thumb and index than thumb and middle, so that's what I have always done.
For you???? You must do the experiment. Learn both ways. It will be clear which works better for you. Start a metronome and see how fast you can pick a given string with even pressure and regular meter. You'll probably find that one or the other is a bit faster FOR YOU. Also note which is more comfortable. Your body will tell you which way works better for you.
Just my opinion -- hope this helps. Have great holidays.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 23 Dec 2014 9:56 am
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I play guitar with no picks and steel with the usual fingerpicks.
I've never figured out why, but I'm faster on six-string with thumb-and-middle but prefer thumb-and-first on steel.
Just another of life's mysteries...
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 23 Dec 2014 10:15 am
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Is it such a mystery? On the steel the forearm is at an approximate right angle to the strings, and on the six-string it's closer to parallel; so the thumb/finger balance is different - or so it seems to me.
I'm studying Jeff Newman's right hand technique at the moment. To be honest I find thumb/middle a bit odd compared to thumb/index. But I'm persevering, thinking it might be handy to learn both.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Don R Brown
From:
Rochester, New York, USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2014 2:16 pm
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IMHO Larry Bell's post makes a lot of sense. I've had a couple guys giving me lessons who say thumb-first is the only way to go, and others who say whatever works. Personally I feel far more comfortable with thumb-middle and have decided that's what I'm going to give the most work on.
I am learning there are not a whole lot of things which are absolutely, unarguably WRONG. It seems no sooner do I see a video of some well-respected instructor saying not to do thus-and-so, I find another video of some monster player doing just that, and sounding amazing. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 23 Dec 2014 3:35 pm
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Every time someone insists that you HAVE to minimize wasted motion (I believe that IS the smart way), I pull up a Sarah Jory video, with her "cobra strike" picking motion.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 25 Dec 2014 6:59 am
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| Being a long time 5 string banjo player, I actually utilize thumb and both fingers when speed picking..While taking lessons from the late (great) Buddy Charleton, he advocated the use of alternating thumb and middle finger, which as you know he himself used with great success. After attempting this method for some time (went as far as taping my index folded under to prevent its use) I realized that the three finger style was more comfortable for me, so whatever works best is what should be used. |
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Justin Emmert
From:
Greensboro, NC
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Posted 25 Dec 2014 1:06 pm
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| Thanks for all the replies. As I've been working with the Newman material, I've found I'm equally as fast with either combinations of fingers, I seem to be blocking better with the use of thumb/middle. It tends to give a better angle allowing my palm to be closer to the strings. If I'm a little lazy and don't pay attention to what I'm doing, I actually tend to over block and deaden strings while simultaneously picking. I'll just keep working through the course and see where I end up. Either way, I'm sure I'll be better off at the end. |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2014 1:22 pm
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I used thumb and first finger for years and then swapped about 3 years ago to thumb and middle finger. It took some getting used to but but I believe it made me faster and cleaner and made blocking much better. It is up to the individual on which way works best for them.
Is my icon sideways to y'all. Sometimes it is to me if I'm on IPad. Just wandering
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2014 1:24 pm
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I think that strict alternation between thumb and finger can help to keep a strong consistent swing feel. It's of less benefit when the feel is straight (8ths or whatever).
When you alternate, do you practice both with thumb on the strong beat, and then with finger on the strong beat? |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2014 4:08 pm
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Hey, Doug, listening to Buddy E you'll hear strong swing and cool phrasing around his use of repeated finger (or usually, thumb) strokes in certain phrases. Years ago he showed me his paradiddle practice, copped from drum rudiments, (which I've since seen in several of his magazine columns). T-F-TT-F-T-FF-T etc. etc. in variations.
That exercise has probably done as much for me as anything else for finger independence, and drive.
On the question of which finger to alternate with thumb, I'm with Larry, I think it's individual ergonomics. For me, the 2nd finger just seems to have an internal balance against the thumb where the index feels cramped and forced… but then, three-finger banjo picking with the pinky and 3rd locked to the head is weird and almost painful for me.
Whatever works, works.
_________________
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
www.musicfarmstudio.com |
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Quentin Hickey
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 26 Dec 2014 8:09 am
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I say practice as many different ways as you can so you can personally find your most efficent way to pick. I like Pauls idea of finding out which finger is the slowest and practice on that finger to try and bring it up to the speed of the rest. This is a good idea for people who pick in groups of threes strings at a time using both fingers and thumb.
Last edited by Quentin Hickey on 27 Dec 2014 4:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2014 6:49 pm
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And thinking about Joe Wright's approach and exercises designed to bring every finger/thumb combination (and pedal/ lever!) into equal accessibility… a great approach from the stand point of developing every tool and muscle group for access when needed.
Something to consider is that everyone's individual approach, i.e; which finger/ thumb, what kinds of scale shapes and exercises have been loaded into muscle memory, even what artists and styles have been listened to and internalized, has a huge contribution to individual style. Really, wouldn't certain iconic players have sounded completely differently had they admired other players than they did, and practiced other approaches than they did?
There is of course a lot to support the practice of endless rudiments, variations, styles, licks, and theoretical constructs… (in fact, I find the availability of these endless courses of study to be one of the most exciting things about being a musician!) But I think there's a strong argument that what we choose to embrace musically, and practice, is a large part of our individual voices as musicians.
That fingering choice may be what defines your sound.
_________________
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
www.musicfarmstudio.com |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 26 Dec 2014 11:49 pm
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Mark is talking about PSG but he could be talking about any instrument.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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