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Topic: First Pedal Steel Choices |
Bradlee Rysdahl
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2014 3:43 pm |
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Hi, I hope this is the right thread for this post. I am looking at getting my first pedal steel. I have played guitar for about 10 years now and have really gotten into slide and country guitar in the last year or so, also love the steel sound.
I've got my eye on a few secondhand guitars that look pretty decent for under $1000. I don't want to break the bank with this purchase but I also don't want to be stuck with a junker once I start getting better.
If ya'll wouldn't mind offering some suggestions on what these guitars are all about (and which one might be the best deal) I would hugely appreciate it. It's hard to find too much information on these brands online so I figured this forum would be a good start.
The guitars are,
A Carter Starter: 10 strings, three pedals, 4 knee levers, E9 tuning. In original box with original papers, instructions, tools and quick start video. Includes volume pedal, slide bar, and Korg CA-30 chromatic tuner. Also incudes Bruce Bouton's Learn to Play Pedal Steel Guitar CD. Currently going for about $600
An MSA Red Baron: Single-neck, 10 String pedal steel guitar.E9 chromatic tuning, 3 Pedals and one knee lever. The cabinet and neck are made of hard wood covered with a vacuum molded high impact ABS shell. Color American Walnut. 34' long, 7 1/2' wide. 3' high 25 lbs. (34 lbs. with case ) includes hard shell case ,steel bar, manual copy, and original detachable volume pedal. Going for $750 now.
A Shobud 1974 S10 professional series: 10 strings, 4 pedals, 2 knee levers, E9 tuning. Going for about $1000 now.
An MSA Pro AM 1970's Sidekick: 3 pedals, 1 knee lever - E9 tuning. Extra strings, bar, picks, and case included. Going for $700.
Then also, whatever this thing is:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USA-Guitar-Company-Pedal-Steel-Guitar-/281511122989?pt=Guitar&hash=item418b5ed82d
Lot of options there, thanks ahead of time for checking them out!
-Brad[/b] |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 2 Dec 2014 3:55 pm
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The starter is renowned for cabinet integrity issues and flimsy lever stops.
The Sidekick and the Red Baron are severely hampered by the one knee. It's good for the first three months, and thereafter just frustrating. Lloyd Green could do more with it than I could win my loaded Zum, but you have to be GOOD to do great things with it.
The Frankensteel on eBay is what I'd call a Turnen Run. Which is what you should do..
If you have the money, buy the Bud yesterday.
Good guitar and a little underpriced. Not deal of the century underpriced, but to the point of "get this guitar."
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 2 Dec 2014 4:20 pm
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Keep looking. Sooner or later, you'll find something in your price category that's far better than any of those.  |
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Butch Mullen
From:
North Carolina, USA 28681
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Posted 2 Dec 2014 4:22 pm
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| 10-4 on what lane said. |
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Bradlee Rysdahl
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2014 4:58 pm
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| Awesome. I was also curious about whether guitars under $1000 were even worth it. The only new pedal steels I could find online were at least 1 to 2 grand. What are the differences between, say, Carter Starters and a $3000 steel? (other than the integrity and lever stop issues) |
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Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2014 5:04 pm
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Hi Brad. WELCOME to our obsession.
What Lane said. I am curious if you will have a chance to try any of the guitars? I would rank the Sho-Bud 3+2 at the top of of those you listed. You can do a lot with 2 knee levers. Assuming it is in decent shape you can (a) add knee levers or (b) sell it when you want something else/more. I have an old Sho-Bud. It's not the easiest playing guitar, but it's tone is tough to beat, my opinion.
There are certainly more to choose from than what you've noticed so far. For a few hundred more you might find a good used S10 or SD10 of more modern design, with 4 or 5 knee levers. But if a grand is your limit, then the Sho-Bud is certainly not a bad choice. |
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Robert Bunting
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2014 5:24 pm
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After searching for what seemed like forever for a steel here's what I learned:
The MSA Sidekick was the newer version of the Red Baron.
Neither were well recommended. But, the Pro Am version I am told has a Pro Changer in it comparable to the MSA Pro models in a cheaper cabinet. It was I believe pre-drilled for adding extra levers. Contact MSA for availability. At the prices mentioned I would skip these.
The Sho-Bud is at the top of your budget mentioned and you may still need a volume pedal (more$$$) and if you add 2 levers you will be well over a grand. It's still the best guitar in the bunch.
But my suggestion is don't discount the Carter Starter.
It has a nice maple cabinet, a raised wood neck, a custom designed Bill Lawrence pickup that sounds good. The draw back I found on mine was the lack of precision on the knee lever (specifically left knee left has a really long throw)
But, It has FOUR knee levers. It comes WITH a volume pedal, wrench, the John Fabian & Joe Wright video are great to get started with. It also comes with the Bruce Bouton video and a tuner. You probably own a decent clean amp and some guitar cables. So for about half your budget you are PLAYING & LEARNING.
Admittedly it is The Fender Squier of steels but you could play it on stage if you were so inclined and after playing it (and knowing It's limitations) you will be able to decide: is steel for me? Do I want a better guitar? If you get better you will probably buy a better guitar. You will be in a better position to evaluate a guitar after starting with the Carter.
I'm so glad I got one, and I am happy to bring it places where I won't take a nicer steel. Plus.. its really light to carry around.
For the price of a Mexican Standard Telecaster you will be on the journey.
Once you get your first steel...
The second one will find YOU. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 2 Dec 2014 5:39 pm
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The Sho Bud is definitely the best of "the lot" but it would require addition of 1-2 additional knee levers to be optimal (figure about $100/lever + installation)
What about new Stage One? It's a great guitar, 3+4 and in the same ballpark price-wise.
http://www.stageonesteelguitars.com |
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Jason Putnam
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2014 5:40 pm
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Zum stage one just posted in for sale section. 975. Better grab it while you can!! This is exactly what you need to start!!!
_________________
1967 Emmons Bolt On, 1995 Mullen PRP 3x5,Nashville 112, JOYO Digital Delay, Goodrich Volume Pedal, Livesteel Strings |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 2 Dec 2014 5:45 pm
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| Yip, go get it now! |
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James Sission
From:
Sugar Land,Texas USA
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John Scanlon
From:
Jackson, Mississippi, USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2014 8:42 pm
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I'd get a Stage One or, better yet, wait for an MSA with 4 knee levers......which shouldn't take long. The downside to the Stage One is that it's a fixed copedent - and it's also pull-release, rather than all-pull. Some don't view that second part as a downside, so it's a matter of opinion. In the meantime, get to know search function on here, and read up on everything under the sun pedal steel related.
Welcome.
_________________
Click here for the Index to Mickey Adams's YouTube video lessons
Insert impressive gear list here. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 2 Dec 2014 9:26 pm
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| Bradlee Rysdahl wrote: |
| Awesome. I was also curious about whether guitars under $1000 were even worth it. The only new pedal steels I could find online were at least 1 to 2 grand. What are the differences between, say, Carter Starters and a $3000 steel? (other than the integrity and lever stop issues) |
The Stage One is right at (or perhaps just over: I thought I heard they went to 1050),and is really well made.
All cheaper "student" guitars have corners cut to make them cheaper to build.
Many of the corners are cosmetic: powder coated or painted endplates (polishing means costly hours at the grinding wheel), wooden pedal racks and visible fasteners (you can see lots of the screws that hold the guitar together, but the Zum uses blind fasteners which give a smooth look, but slow down manufacturing).
The parts are cheaper, which results in mushy stops.
John Scanlon calls the pull-release changer of the Stage One a downside. Only when you want to change things is it a problem. They have a better tone because the fingers have more mass, and they play well.
I'd put that Stage One ahead of the 3&2 Bud.
If you get the Bud, it's probable that you wouldn't even want to add the levers right away. There are plenty of sources for parts.
Regarding the Pro-am Sidekick, you wouldn't talk to MSA, they don't make those parts anymore. But I can think of three makers of VERY good parts for old MSA guitars
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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John Scanlon
From:
Jackson, Mississippi, USA
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Dave Campbell
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 3 Dec 2014 2:29 am
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i can't recommend the stage one higly enough for a beginner. everything works properly right out of the case. as a beginner, you likely are not equipped to deal with (or even notice) problems with your steel. you'll have enough to worry about on the top side without having to get underneath.
though i've always preferred vintage gear, i started with a brand new stage one. once i got things together a bit, i sold it (pretty much for what i paid) and moved on to an old bud (which i had to do a bit of tinkering with). in the first 6 months, the stage one got played hard, and i barely ever had to tune it. i was confident that if something wasn't sounding right it was my fault!
you cannot lose with the stage one. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2014 9:55 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| The Sidekick and the Red Baron are severely hampered by the one knee. It's good for the first three months, and thereafter just frustrating. |
And that may be giving the Red Baron the benefit of the doubt. Don't think I had mine even three months, probably closer to three weeks, before I traded up to a 3x2 Sho-Bud Pro 1.
If you could find one for about half that price, it may be worth it -- for no more than three months. |
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Jason King
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 5 Dec 2014 10:35 am
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| The Stage One is an awesome guitar. I bought one for my son and it stays in tune, sounds good, easy to play and is light yet stable. I can't imagine a better rig to learn on for the same money. Also, Doug is a great guy to deal with! |
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Bradlee Rysdahl
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 5 Dec 2014 2:34 pm
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You want a guitar with 4 or 5 knee levers. The Stage one has 4. The Maverick has only one.
While it is true that there is some older instructional that is written for guitars with fewer knee levers, most of today's courses are written for guitars with 4. If you get a guitar with less than that, sooner or later, you'll come across an instruction to use something you don't have, and you'll be frustrated.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Daniel Policarpo
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Posted 5 Dec 2014 4:34 pm
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| I've had a Stage One going on just over two years now. I play about 1-3 hours a day, and have found the guitar to meet me each step of the way as I progress. It stays in tune, will sound as vintage or modern as your technique and amp dictates, and the mechanicals are stout. |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 5 Dec 2014 5:44 pm
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| I seem to recall Michael Douchette playing a 'Stage One' on the Virginia Dreams Center Stage T.V. program and he sounded great. (In case you are not already aware, Michael was formerly Tammy Wynette's steel guitarist, impressive credentials indeed!). |
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Joe Huggins
From:
Bear River City,Utah, USA
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Posted 5 Dec 2014 7:48 pm
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| I went through the the same processes you are going through. Ended up ordering a Stage One but it takes some time. Apparently they are popular. Mine will be here in a week or two but I ordered it about three months ago. |
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Daniel Policarpo
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Posted 6 Dec 2014 5:40 am
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| Yeah, If I remember correctly, it took me about 3 months to receive a new one. Doug told me it would take about that long, and it was well worth the wait. The only thing I've had to do for mechanical maintenance was spritz a little Teflon on an area about a year ago. |
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