Where to lower the E'es ??

Kevin Raymer · From: Chalybeate, Kentucky, USA

I have one guitar that lowers the E'es on LKR and one that lowers them on RKL.

I'd like to unify my setup.

Which way would you guys recommend I go ??

And of course, a Why ???

Thanks,
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Henry Matthews · From: Texarkana, Ark USA

I'm assuming the guitars are both Emmons set up. I prefer both E raises and lowers on the left knee. Since it is probably the most used knee lever, I don't want it effecting my volume pedal. This is just my take on placement and some people like them other way on right knee. Did have my E lowers on RKR but moved them many years ago.
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Bill Bertinot · From: Burlington Ky

I prefer RKL - I started out that way; and for me, I find it very musical to use these combination of knee levers: lower the E's and G# together (LKR=G# to F#), and lower E's + AB pedals + vertical = diminished chord or single note runs.
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Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

If you lower 2 to C# and also lower 6 to F#, then the E string changes should both be on the same leg, as both 2nd and 6th string drops play well with the E lower.
If you split up the E changes, then obviously one of those two combos goes away.
I like them on the left leg so that the B string lowers on a vertical and the E drop can be done with one legs at once. It makes a very pretty tritone resolve to:
Lower 5; hit 5 & 8; simultaneously release the B drop and engage the E drop. If that doesn't make you smile, you're not listening.
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Kevin Raymer · From: Chalybeate, Kentucky, USA

I know that Mike Sweeney lowers his on the LKR.

That should prolly be enough to make my decision for me but I thought I'd ask.

Thanks for sharing guys.
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Kevin Raymer
Zum / Knaggs / Breedlove
Fractal Audio

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

IMO, the definitive discussion on this issue - read it all the way through: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/007769.html

A poll conducted several years ago here - http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=160728

It's been discussed a LOT here over the years. In the end, I think it's whatever works for the things you want to do most. There are generally tradeoffs to be made with setup decisions.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Without time right now to read everything, one consideration:

--if a person chooses Emmons or Day pedals partially to accommodate ankle ease of A+F lever moves, ie. a better direction, left or right, for the ankle to bend when making this move, then possibly the opposite direction is not so comfortable when doing B+E lever with the lever on LKR. This being a fairly fundamental move, it might give an advantage to having the lever on RKL.

Just a thought.

As with some other people, a major factor in preference can be as simple as what was the setup on your first steel? That can become the standard for what feels the most right.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

There's no definitive answer to this, no right or wrong. It's purely a matter of personal preference. It's as subjective as the choice of color.

Since you have one of each, you can try out both ways ad determine which setup you like more.
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Bob Knight · From: Bowling Green KY

I concur with Mr. Perlowin 100%. I like either, but am partial to RKL(Sho~Bud setup). Smile

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Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

I prefer the old MSA set up.. They had it standard for years.. RKR= E's1/2 lower
RKL= E's 1/2 raise
Anything else, and I'm in trouble... bob
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Jason Putnam · From: Tennessee, USA

I had mine on the right knees, but I had to give up on that. Every move was just uncomfortable to me. Moved them to the left knees and now Im in heaven. Thats where they will be staying from now on.
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Steve English · From: Baja, Arizona

I started out on a ShoBud with RKL lowering E's.

Fifteen years later, switched to LKR because at that time I didn't want to change a p/p I was playing.

After all the dust settles I prefer RKL, although all my guitars are still LKR. Oh Well

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Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

if I recall, and it's here in the archives somewhere, Buddy once chimed in saying something like.,..it's not wrong to place E's L+R but before you do you may want to consider what you may NOT be able to do going forward...regarding motion , redundancy and additional notes.....plus extra body movement...something to that effect...we only have two knees on our bodies and you want to get the most out of them.

Now obviously many here will say.."I have been playing with split E's for decades"..ok , thats not an argument .

For Ex..many players do indeed play modest AB with E's...with some BC mixed in now and then. Think about it..if your E's are on LKR and LKL it's all on the left leg...why add a 2nd leg when you don't need to ? thats the point of discussion...

IS it right or wrong, ? not for me to say..but I do agree that less body movement is better than more ! Laughing

And yes I know, some folks say they like the transition of E lower to E raise on opposite legs for a very smooth controlled lower to raise or vice versa.
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Bill C. Buntin · From: Cleburne TX

What Mike said. There is no definitive. All on left knee for me. In retrospect, take a look at Jeff newman's setup. After study and understanding of e9/b6 one realizes why as many people have Es on the right leg. This has been discussed and debated for practically 50 years.

I used to flip flop in my head about it. One of my good friends from Ft Worth told me to not fuss about it. Pick one, and stick with it. He was right. I chose left knee and haven't been sorry.

I sat in on a friends d10 Mullen one night. He was a day setup player and his Es were on opposite knees. I played one song on the E neck and rest of the set I used the 6th. After the set, he was laughing at me. He said, "now you know why I play c6 when I come and sit in on your guitar!"

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Lane wrote:
"I like them on the left leg so that the B string lowers on a vertical and the E drop can be done with one legs at once. It makes a very pretty tritone resolve to: Lower 5; hit 5 & 8; simultaneously release the B drop and engage the E drop. If that doesn't make you smile, you're not listening."

Reminded me of a rudimentary "Danny Boy" start, easily played using RKL, where my E lowers are. Nice contra move, by the way...

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

@ Richard Sinkler---

--my point being, for some people, the choice of Emmons or Day is about ease of movement, especially re: the ankle bend, especially re: physical limitations, minor or major (I'm starting to get into some arthritic ankle issues myself).
From this perspective, I could see choosing the better direction (Emmons or Day), choosing the corresponding side (LKL or LKR) for the F lever and putting the E lowers on the other leg. Because this person's ankle really doesn't want to go the other way.

Paul Hoaglin · Posted 9 Oct 2014 12:40 pm

I have them both on the left ("normal" Emmons setup). With the geometry of the left levers on my MSA Classic D-10, I figured out a way to set them fairly close together (but with just enough room still to comfortably get to the C and 4th pedals), and when I want a relatively smooth move from LKR to LKL with the A pedal down, I twist my leg outward just a bit so that the top of my calf muscle catches the bottom of the LKL lever just as I'm starting to release LKR, and if I get it just right, it can result in nearly as smooth a raise as if I had them on both legs. I tend to use the different combos quite a bit, so I feel I would lose a lot to put them on opposite legs, and once I figured out my leg twist trick, I felt more confident in staying with that setup. It does mean, though, that I couldn't consider adding a second front LKL or LKR, "Crawford Cluster" style, because things are just too tight.

Does anyone else with the E's both on the same leg have any special tricks to keeping a smooth move between them like that?

Bill C. Buntin · From: Cleburne TX

Paul it's well described what you said. The trick for me was more of a letting off the raises smooth, the lower was much more natural move. But ergonomics certainly are the key. I think it becomes second nature to most, or at least it should.

Paul Hoaglin · Posted 10 Oct 2014 9:39 am **Re: It did make me smile...**

Thanks, Bill. I just see that a lot of people's steels have a much wider gap between LKL and LKR than I do, and I wonder how they do that move if they have similar setups. Like you say, ergonomics are the key. Just since reading this thread, I tried an experiment with a taped up piece of cardboard wrapped around LKL, to see if extending the length of the lever downward could help that move without getting any more in the way. I think an inch or two longer could make a difference and still allow space to freely mash the A and B's without hindrance. It's worth further experiments, I think.

Dick Wood · From: Springtown Texas, USA

For 16 years mine was on the LKR then I switched to RKL and only took me a very short time to get used to it. If it feels good then do it that way.
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Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

ok then..so you split the E's..LKL raises E's, RKL lowers E's ?

where are you guys placing 2 and 9 lower ?

and more importantly, where is 1 raise with 7 raise or 6 lower ? LKR ?

How do you Raise 1 while mashing A PED and E raise (LKL) if it's on LKR ?

just thinking out loud...
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Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
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jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website

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