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Topic: Newbie here...Black Box |
Sandra Dobbins
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2014 7:52 am |
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| What is a black box and what is it used for? Thank you. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 7 Oct 2014 8:11 am
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I don't like the tone of my earlier response so I'm editing a bit.
After you've been playing for a few years you might want to start thinking about things like the Sarno Black Box, but for now you really don't need such a device.
If you have unlimited funds to pursue your new passion, then go ahead and buy one. It's a good device. But if you're on a budget, there are other things that are probably of more value to you at this time. Private lessons from a qualified instructor would be at the top of the list. You primarily need to focus on getting good tone from your hands and not from devices.
As for a technical explanation of the Sarno Black Box, others are far more qualified than me; but as I understand it, a Black Box is a tube powered impedance matching buffer, and perhaps a few other things as well. It puts a 12AX7 preamp tube in your signal chain to soften and round out the tone. The highs in particular are a bit sweeter with the device. It works well with solid state amps. It does not dramatically change your tone. The effect is subtle, but many, including me, strongly prefer to use the device whenever playing through solid state amps.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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James Kerr
From:
Scotland, UK
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Posted 7 Oct 2014 2:19 pm
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If that is the function of the Black Box, then why not just buy a Vox Valvetronix Amp which has a Tube front end and a Solid State output built in.
I'm sure there will be other makes the same.
I have no idea of the cost of The Black Box, but I got my 30 Watt Vox for $50 nearly new and never out of the bedroom of the first owner.
Just throwing in some ideas for anyone wanting a Valve pre-amp sound.
James. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 7 Oct 2014 2:53 pm
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I agree with Paul. It's basically a tube filter and it helps to make solid state amps sound a little warmer, less sterile. In my experience it tends to even the sound across all the strings, on all the frets, and I can hear more separation in the strings, especially the wound strings. My guitar sounds smoother through a black box. It's very subtle, but you will certainly notice the difference when you unplug it! Play through a BB for a few minutes and then bypass it. You will notice that the strings don't sound as balanced, even, smooth, sustained, etc. It's hard to describe. I have used a BB on all of my recordings for the past several years and on most gigs.
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2015 10:15 am Buffer with tube amp?
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I have a Matchbox which I just discovered (from other posts) has a buffer in it when in guitar mode??
Many people are referring to using buffers with amps that have a solid state preamp.
I'm usually playing through a Vibrosonic or would like to try my black face Princeton Reverb mic'ed sometime. It's got an Altec Lansing 10 that I love, no Oxford flapping around - if you know what I mean.
Wouldn't I be "gilding the lily" using a buffer on an all tube amp? Can someone point me to a post about buffers??
I know.. shut up and try it!
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--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2015 10:34 am
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I get all kinds of reports from people about what the Black Box does for them and their tone. Here's a small compilation of what people find with the Black Box:
1 - The highs are sweeter and the midrange harshness goes away. It makes finding a good EQ setting much easier. Somewhat harsh sounding amplifiers become quite usable.
2 - The SGBB enables one to dial in a tone that simultaneously allows you to have a clear and vibrant low-wound string tone and also smooth and silky high registers all the way up into Hugheyland. This balance of tone from low to high is very hard to achieve, but the Black Box does it automatically
3 - The SGBB seems to grab low level detail, very softly played stuff is made audible and this seems to enhance the perception of sustain as the notes decay. This high sensitivity to picking nuance makes playing more fun and expressive.
4 - The Vari-Z knob is a very effective general tone control. Once the amp is dialed in nicely, the Vari-Z knob may be the only knob you want to mess with.
5 - Even with a tube amp, many people will have some type of solid state device before the amp like a tuner or reverb or delay pedal. With the Black Box up front, your pickup gets all the benefit of seeing a tube first so you capture that sound right out of the gate. If your delay pedal or active volume pedal is the first active device the pickup sees, then you're stuck to some degree with a transistor tone. Then the tube amp can help warm that over, but there's something many people like about the way a pickup sounds when it sees a tube first.
6 - Since it's a buffer, it protects the pickup's tone from the "tone sucking" that long cable runs can cause.
Brad |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2015 12:22 pm
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Thank you , Brad  Makes a lot more sense, now!
I take it that the "ice picks melt into honey" ?
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--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2015 3:29 pm Newbie here Black Box
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Sandra, you weren't asking about buying a Black Box, only what they are. This has been covered by others.
Here is my experience with the Black Box. I bought one from Jerry Roller because he had a money back guarantee if it didn't work for me. I tried it a couple of days and called Jerry and told him that I really couldn't tell much difference with or without it and that I would like to return it. Jerry said no problem, but wanted me to keep using it for 2 weeks just to be sure. I called Jerry in 2 weeks and told him that after using it for 2 weeks, when I took it away, I could tell quite a difference, so I told him I was keeping it.
Fast forward a couple of years: I needed money and decided that the subtle difference the Black Box was making was a sound that I could live without. I would have one less thing to carry around and hook up. So I sold it.
Fast forward a couple more years: I just could not get a sound I was happy with from any of the Peavey solid state amps that I had owned. So, I ordered a 2nd Black Box and was able to get a better sound, but once again, the difference was subtle. This was about 2 years ago and I am still using it and have no plans to sell it this time. I don't want to make the same mistake twice. I am using it with my two Peavey Valve King 112 tube amps, but it is not really needed.(They are tube amps and already have 12AX7 tubes in them) I have just got used to the silent input out to my StroboFlip tuner, and I like having the variable Z (tone control) at my fingertips. Otherwise, I would probably just put it on the shelf but I will not sell it. It is a staple that I want to always have in the stable.
Having said all of this, I agree 100% that as a "newbie" you would be a lot better off investing in
lessons and/or instructional material. That is just were you are at right now in your learning process. If you have money to burn, then get a Black Box, but unless you have unusually good ears, don't be surprised if you can't tell any difference.
Learn to play first, then when you are ready, and have a sound in your head that you want, then you might want to consider electronic gadgets (including amps) but the sound you are looking for may be very illusive and may be right in front of you in your hands. Right now, my unsolicited advice is to put your money where it will do you the most good in the road ahead to learning to play a very complex instrument TEACHING AIDS! and maybe some Mike Headrick rhythm tracks (plug for Mike...his is the only tracks I will use) You can download number charts from Mike free of charge for the tracks that you buy. These are invaluable for playing along with the tracks, even if only you are playing are chords.
Last edited by George Kimery on 25 Feb 2015 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2015 3:42 pm
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Just think of the great players who have plugged in and played using only an amp with reverb  Practice, practice, practice
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--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Tom Quinn
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Posted 27 Apr 2015 2:22 pm
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I remember that book. It got me through the beginning for sure...
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I need an Emmons! |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 27 Apr 2015 2:57 pm
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I thought so too. But, I can't figure out where to plug the guitar in. 
Great beginner book for sure.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Bill Moran
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2015 4:41 pm
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Other than your guitar, the best investment you will make. !
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Bill |
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