C-C# on C neck, need ideas

Larry Behm · From: Mt Angel, Or 97362

I just added the C-C# change on my C6th neck, give me some ideas of how you use it. I am a big single note player.

Larry Behm

John Lacey · From: Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada

Larry, the main useage I have for that one is similar to the E->F change on the E9th. except for using the 5th. pedal instead of the 1st. Play 2,3,4,5 and go up 3 frets using that combo and you will get the next inversion of the F chord at that point. I think that there is an augmented use for it too but I don't have my horn with me in the house.
John.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Think F lever
It raises the tonic 1/2 tone. Many of those type uses translate, as John points out
Out of the F (9th string w/ or w/o P6) position it augments the fifth
Out of the D (P5) position it raises the b7 to a Ma7
Out of the A (boo-wah / P Cool

it raises the #9 to a Maj third

I don't believe it's used much for single string stuff.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 01 April 2003 at 06:03 AM.]

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

6th pedal engaged, add the C to C# pull for an aumented 7th or aug 9th. This chord has been needed IMO since C6 was invented.

Use the C to C# pull with the 8th pedal to give a full 10 string A7th chord. Another needed change (IMO) since day one. While a raised 9th has its place, I have always felt the A7th was even more important. I could never understand why it took soo long for this change to come about.

If you are not pulling BOTH 3 and 7 to C# I highly suggest it. In this way you can use it really well with pedal 5 (dont use strings 9 or 10). For an A6th voicing*. By going on and off of pedal 5 while holding C to C# you go from a 6th to a 7th, which is a common musical evolve.

While you have the latter (if you raise the A's to Bb), the above change gives you other inversions and often keeps you from having to move the bar so much.

Use the C to C# pull with the A to Bb pull, for a diminished on strings where pedals 5 and 6 won't; such as strings 2, 3, 4 and 5.

Hope this helps,

carl

* Note: if you basically tune the C neck to JI; BUT you tune pedal 5 for the best "9th" sound (ET), The C to C# raise will NOT be in tune with the F# on string 5. I have NO solution for this.

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 01 April 2003 at 06:54 AM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

My friend Carl wrote:

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

oh indeed I do b0b.

In fact most players I have close contact with do too. To my ears, if you tune the F# to JI with the 4th string A, the 9th chord (strings 2, 3 and 5) does not sound right at all to me.

Same way with the 6th string Eb (pedal 6). IF you tune this Eb so it is JI with the C and the G, the F7th" chord is way out of tune; to my ears.

So the way I tune C6 is straight JI with the following exceptions:

1. Pedal 5 (F#'s)

2. Pedal 6 (Eb)

3. Knee lever (Bb's)

The above 3 cases are very close to ET. Finally if I don't come pretty close to ET on the F# and the Eb, pedal's 5 and 6 (dim) does not sound good at all. Now I am not saying it is perfect even here because the E and the A is JI, BUT it makes a BETTER dim if at least the F# and Eb are almost ET if not dead on it.

Or this is the way me and others I know do it. If you check Jeff Newman's tuning numbers, I believe you will find his F#'s and Eb's are much closer to ET (442.5 ref), than JI.

carl

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

So, they are tuned ET relative to what note? The C?

Don McClellan · From: California/Thailand

Hi Larry, You can do some E9 type scales with that change.

Play strs 3 & 6 at fret 3 (no KL) then 3 & 6 at fret 4 using that change. Then fret 6 with, fret 8 without, fret 10 w/o, fret 11 with, 13 with and 15 w/o. And so on. You can exchange string 6 with strings 2 or 4 or 8.

Don

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Yes b0b, relative to C.

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

What lever did you put this on, and what did you have to give up to get it?

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

A neat single-note application:

Three frets above 'zero' with P5 engaged -

Pick string 2, 2, 1, 3, 3(raised), 4, 5, 6...
(Give each note equal value)

This is with 'D' on top, of course.

It's a useful pattern as part of a (hopefully

) flowing solo.
RR

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