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Topic: When you practice do not... |
Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 9:34 am |
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Use an amp or a volume pedal!!
Wow really, yes.
You will learn to pick harder because of no amp, your tone will improve when you plug back in.
Learn to play with more confidence because of no volume pedal, you will not be inclined to "pull back" when you are not sure of what you doing, you can't pull back, you need to keep going past the potential errors or mis Q"s.
You WILL become a better player.
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Stereo Steel amp, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533 |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Gary Cosden
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 9:43 am
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| I often practice without an amp but I always use a volume pedal, even though it's obviously not controlling my volume, just for muscle memory. You really do need to practice with an amp IMHO and often but going without an amp does force you to dig in a little as you say. |
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Eric Philippsen
From:
Central Florida USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 2:43 pm
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Good subject - somewhere in the vein of "how to practice."
Practicing without a volume pedal is something I do every now and then. So is practicing without reverb. Helps me......and my playing needs all the help it can get. Practicing with a headphone setup is great. I do that a whole lot.
I'll have to try the practicing without an amp. |
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Ron Pruter
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 3:09 pm
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Caution, you also need practice with a volume pedal.
_________________
Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112. |
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Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 4:43 pm
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Ron you are correct, you should also practice with a volume pedal sometimes. Set the pedal so that it does not ever shut completely off, it will force you to play "through" without shutting down. One will become a better player, take it to the bank.
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Stereo Steel amp, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533 |
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James Jacoby
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 5:09 pm
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| Really don't know how you folks can practice without a full rig! To me, practicing without a v-pedal, and amp, would be like practicing driving a car while holding only a steering wheel in your hands! How can you get a feel for right hand dynamics without your amp, and volume pedal being involved? I want my pick attack, to be harder or lighter, depending on the passage, and I need to hear how it sounds coming out of the amp. I don't control my volume with just the volume pedal. -Jake- |
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Jeff Scott Brown
From:
O'Fallon Missouri, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 6:39 pm
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I can see benefits of sometimes practicing without an amp but directing people with "When you practice do not use an amp or a volume pedal" seems like bad advice. Always leaving those out would be a real obstacle to progress. It would be for me anyway.
_________________
GFI Ultra S10 Keyless
Peavey Nashville 112
Goodrich L120, BJS, Peterson StroboPlus HD |
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Don R Brown
From:
Rochester, New York, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 7:48 pm
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| Jeff Scott Brown wrote: |
| I can see benefits of sometimes practicing without an amp but directing people with "When you practice do not use an amp or a volume pedal" seems like bad advice. Always leaving those out would be a real obstacle to progress. It would be for me anyway. |
I agree. OP has a good suggestion, which I already use, but it's one of many approaches, not a hard and fast "always" deal. There needs to be a modifier or qualifier in that advice - "sometimes", or "occasionally", rather than the mandate as suggested. |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 30 Sep 2014 8:04 pm
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I've practiced without an amp before and it has it's benefits for technique and motive skills, but, has no effect for the true sound and soul of the true steel sound. Your amp is an important part in making the steel sound how it sounds. As I feel it, the player, the steel and the electronics all work together in making the steel sound the way it does. There are nuances that can't be heard or felt without the steel being fired up. If you want to practice without an amp, that's your choice, but, I don't do it on a regular basis.
On a side note, I was in a music store today, where, I played several unplugged Teles and Strats. They produced the typical unplugged sound, just my skill and their playability ( action, feel, weight, intonation ) . Then, I played several acoustic guitars, where I heard the actual intended sound of the guitars, where my skill plus the the instrument itself fulfilled it's potential. Quite a difference in the overall aspect of the instruments. |
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 3:46 am
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Id vote for both, practise w.out amp and vol.pedal but also practise how you actually gonna play when performing.
Without amp and pedal there are certain things/sounds/feel/touch that can be focused on easier than if playing through an amp.
With the amp you get a totally different aural feedback of what your right hand is doing to the strings. If this sound dont match/respond to what your fingers are doing and what you are used to hearing you might find yourself in big trouble trying play what you did when not plugged in to an amp.
Certain rooms, stages, scene, surroundings might change the sound so much that you dont recognize the familiar sound of how your guitar is supposed to respond to what your fingers put into it. Some places the guitar will seem to play by itself, other times youll have to fight it to get the sound you want. Practise to be able handle both situations.
B.Erlandsen |
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Kjell Ohlsson
From:
Mora, Dalecarlia, Sweden
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 4:03 am
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If you practice and when you practice, give and practice 100% using all of your normal equipment ! How can you perform 100% if you haven´t practice 100% ? 
I Think it´s a simple roule.
_________________
Black Emmons L LGII D10 9+6,BOSS RV3, TubeFex, Fender Steel King, Hilton & Goodrich vol.ped, Fender 60th Anniversary Telecaster, Fender Twin Reverb 65 ReIssue, Volvo V70, |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 7:21 am
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This is one of those threads I can see being extremely confusing to a newby!
It does make sense to put in some practice time with your full rig, you must learn the ins and outs of how to set your gear for the tone you seek. (Although it can be disconcerting how different an amp can sound on a stage from the basement or practice room!)
The use of the volume pedal is a fundamental part of steel "sound" and technique for most players, and as such requires a good bit of practice time and mental attention.
In my case, when adding any new piece of gear or an effect, etc., I need to practice for a bit at stage volume to really experiment and integrate it into my performance setup.
I took Larry's original post in the spirit where it intersects with my playing, which may not be suitable for a beginner or occasional player... I know what my rig sounds like and what sound I'm going for, I guess I would say I can hear my amplified sound in my head, even practicing unplugged. Unless I have a separate steel rig setup somewhere, the moving around from gig to gig and session to session makes me lazily less willing to set up and tear down my whole rig over and over, and I usually just set up steel and pack seat for practice. I do think it helps develop picking drive and strength, and unplugged practice serves me perfectly well for learning new parts or building technique, which is what I'm usually after. One of my personal shortcomings is extraneous noises from hinky pick attack or angle, and unplugged practice is particularly useful for making that noticeable and letting me work on hand position and pick attack.
I would say a new player, or one with new gear, should put in whatever time it takes to get the sound they want from their setup. And new players in particular should most definitely practice volume (or more properly, expression) pedal technique just as they would any other fundamental playing technique as it's not natural, but an acquired skill.
_________________
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
www.musicfarmstudio.com |
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Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 7:35 am
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OK I have you all thinking now. Yes I use an amp in my practice room, but sometimes I do not use it just sit down and pick "some", it gives my hand a work out having to play harder.
I never use a volume pedal at home or in the studio, forces me to play more evenly with my hand vs pumping the pedal.
I always set my pedal to not shut off for the same reason. It must be working for me as I get a lot of comments on how "even" my volume is from note to note or chord to chord.
Just a couple of little ways to help with right hand technique, then when you do plug in you will "possibly" sound better. Mileage may vary!!!
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Stereo Steel amp, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533 |
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Niels Andrews
From:
Salinas, California, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 9:07 am
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I just hit the mute switch on my amp and I am already plugged into the headphone jack which I run into my Mac. That output goes to my USB mixing panel and then a headset. You can then put on a backing track on you tube and jam for hours bothering no one.I play this way a couple of hours everyday, while others sleep undisturbed. What is nice versus the thirty dollar solution, you can play with all your effects that you normally use through your amp and a backing track.
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 9:23 am
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i notice from the first to last post, larry goes from 'you will become a better player (you can take it to the bank) ....to 'your mileage may vary'....
hmmm |
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Jeff Scott Brown
From:
O'Fallon Missouri, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 9:26 am
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| chris ivey wrote: |
i notice from the first to last post, larry goes from 'you will become a better player (you can take it to the bank) ....to 'your mileage may vary'....
hmmm |
The more important transition was that from "When you practice do not use an amp..." to "...but sometimes I do not use it..." (the "it" there was referring to an amp). The latter makes perfect sense. The former, not so much.
_________________
GFI Ultra S10 Keyless
Peavey Nashville 112
Goodrich L120, BJS, Peterson StroboPlus HD |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 9:35 am
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In other places, we've read the Buddy E practices occasionally without an amp.
It makes sense to include it in your practice mix, to keep you in the habit of STRIKING them strangs.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Niels Andrews
From:
Salinas, California, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 9:59 am
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Buddy didn't have the technology we have today! 
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 10:16 am
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Doesn't negate the purpose of either practice without amps or lights.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 3:25 pm
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Keep it coming I love the passion and input . I can take it.
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Stereo Steel amp, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533 |
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Quentin Hickey
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 6:49 pm
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I agree with Larry. If you play unplugged and your pick attack is in such a way that the notes are unclear than you will get a muddy tone. If you work on your string/pick attack until you a definate plunk like sound on the strings than you will get crisp clear loud bell tone notes!
I learned from watching people like Mike Johnson and Buck Reid. |
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Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 1 Oct 2014 7:14 pm
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You might notice that I did not say NEVER!! Learn to do both a little here a little there.
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Stereo Steel amp, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533 |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2014 7:48 pm
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I actually have oodles, or at least a minor clot, of "things to do that are good for you." But not what you'd want on in the great majority of "real" music-making. These involve both turning things off - and on. When the li'l grommets are trying to use me to get parental units to score them some more stuff (typically the latest greatest Over, Over, Over Drive pedal ITO*) I tell my (sixer) students that a delay pedal is Number 1, the longer and more digitally squeaky-clean the better. Nothing like bad & muffled, toneless notes coming back up, over and over. More fun than a metronome, and can teach a bit about harmony, but most important evenness of tone, volume and NOTE DURATION. Any fast lick that speeds up and slows down inside it's own self is isolated, un-transferable and hence not real speed at all. Play the same lick three places=three fingerings, now you've got something.
2nd most is an envelope filtered something, wahs are the most common but depending, you can get them to trigger flangers, pitch shift etc. Used without a volume pedal or compression, there's no faster way to force even picking volume. AND softer/louder while maintaining the same speed, which is not, actually, as common as "we'd" like.  And you could quite easily apply this WITH the VP, to learn to control it better faster - I think the ear can hear tiny tone changes easier than volume changes.
I have finally drifted over to the camp of having my computer on most of the time, and there's any number of free online drum machines out there, found under "free online drum machines." GAS:
http://www.drumbot.com/projects/sequence/
Actually my #1,  which I regret to say it took me years to figure out :
I put the MSA SuperSlide up on a couple of 2X4 blocks so it slides right over my computer keyboard. But any arrangement you can make that has a steel guitar RIGHT THERE, and always ON, every time your computer is ON - well it sure screws up your computing! 
*(In Their Opinion  )
(One little addendum: the number of people who practice 90% of the time without picks, then find they really need them to play with real other people, then find they're a lot harder to use than just sticking them on... no need to ask how I know this, alright? And ditto with distortion. Practice clean, but you have to practice making dirt, too.) |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 8 Oct 2014 9:31 am
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I started by playing along with songs on the radio using a VP and amp for well over a year. My wife put up with about as much discord as any human should ever bear. Ironically, Im a much better player now and hardly ever use an amp to practice at home. It is partly out of consideration for her sleeping in the next room at night.  I also suffer a bit of mild tinnitus. I buy earplugs by the case and get more than my share of amp time at rehearsals and performances.
| Mark van Allen wrote: |
| ...I took Larry's original post in the spirit where it intersects with my playing, which may not be suitable for a beginner or occasional player… |
The main reason for me to begin first with the volume pedal was to get used to controlling it while operating the right levers at the same time. Once this became second nature, it was not nearly as important as the hands, pedals and levers for learning any new material or technique.
Out of all the coordination involved in playing this instrument, its still the right hand picking which poses the greatest challenge for me. It is the place where all tone starts and stops. |
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