Thoughts of rearranging my e9 copedant.

Mark Nix · From: Arkansas, USA

My current E9 setup is this:

--- P1 - P2 - P3 - LKL2 - LKL(F) - LKR - LKV - RKL - RKR
F# ----------------------------------------------- G
D# ---------------- E ---------------------------------- D/C#
G# ----- A
E ----------- F# ---------- F ------ Eb
B - C# ----- C# ------------------------- Bb
G# ----- A ---------------------------------------------- F#
F# ----------------------------------------------- G
E -------------------------- F ------ Eb
D
B - C# ----------------------------------- Bb

I'm thinking of switching it to this

--- P1 - P2 - P3 - P4 - LKL(F) - LKR - LKV - RKL - RKR
F# ---------------------------------------G---- G#
D# ----------------------------------------------E--- D/C#
G# ----- A -------
E ----------- F# --------- F ------ Eb
B - C# ----- C# --A--
G# ----- A --------F#----------------------------------
F# ---------------------------------------G---- G#
E ------------F#---------- F ------ Eb
D -------------------------------------------------------C#
B - C# ------C#---A

Is there a specific reason not to add the 3 string lower on the Franklin pedal, or the 10 string raise on the C pedal?

Other than that it looks pretty spiffy to me, the 1,2,7 RKL raise, the 1,7 LKV raise that can be used with the AB by simply raising the left leg.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

First, pedal 3 might be real stiff with 4 pulls. It may hamper your use of the pedal in quick licks.

Second, some guitars have trouble lowering the 3rd string a whole tone. You would have to experiment with that one.

The rest looks pretty normal.

EDITED to correct a spelling error,
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Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Depending on the guitar, it may not be possible for the 3rd string to lower all the way to F#. You can test this by striking the string and pushing the lower finger in as far as it will go at the end of the guitar with a pencil, phillips screwdriver, etc., leaving the pedals and levers alone.

The G raise is a good one to put on the vertical IMO, as you said because of the leverage to press it with pedals down.

Dale Rivard · From: Ontario, Canada

I agree with Richard. I have the whole tone raise on my 8th string (Carter steel) on the C pedal along with raising 4 & 5 and it makes the pedal considerably stiffer. Adding the 10th string would probably make it worse. Theory wise though, it makes perfect sense. My knee lever setup and placement is exactly what you're thinking about except for the vertical. I took it off and now use a half knee lever for the G notes. It took a while to consistently get the tuning but now I like it better. It's smooth and seamless to go from 1 note to the other. Another difference is on the 4th pedal, I lower the 5 & 10th (B notes) strings a whole tone to an A note.

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

You need to lower the 5th and 10th strings to A to get the Franklin pedal change. Maybe you just have a typo, but you show those strings as only lowering to A#.
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Mark Nix · From: Arkansas, USA

My pedal 5 pulls 4 strings on the c6 neck and it's not too stiff... Heck look at paul franklins c6th. I think a couple of his pedals even pull stops out on the tone wheel organs nearby. Haha.

http://b0b.com/tunings/pf_c6.htm

So as long as it's not too stiff or cause cabinet drop (I have none now) then the pedal 3 should be ok?

And my string 3 will almost go low enough, so that one is out of the question.

Mark Nix · From: Arkansas, USA

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Pedal steel is a funny thing.
Sometimes things that SEEM so logical may turn out NOT to be.

Case in point: G# to G
As a guitar player in 1973 when I bought my first pedal steel, nothing made more sense to me than kicking a knee lever to flat the major third. As it turned out, for the rare occasion when I'd really need to go from GMaj to Gmin, dropping back 2 frets and hitting B+C for the straight minor and A+B for the mi7 worked just fine. If you didn't like that choice, the A+F position is ALREADY SET UP FOR THE IMaj-->imi transition. Fret 3 GMaj --> Fret 6 (A+F pos) GMaj --let off F lever flatting 3rd tone to 3b --> Gmi

I would vote to keep the B to Bb/A#
Used by itself it is a useful leading tone that converts a IMaj to a II7
IN ADDITION, most all pull guitars will allow you to tune the split between the A pedal B to C# and the B to Bb to give an in tune C note.
Fret 3 CMaj (A+B) -- hold those pedals and add the lever that lowers B to Bb --> cmin ANOTHER WAY TO DO THE I to Im change on the same fret

See you really didn't need that G# to G after all.

And, I agree with Richard that the C pedal gets stiff easily, even just with 8 E to F#. I play a 12 string and raise my 11th string E to F# on some of my guitars and it is tolerable but I had to take the pull on 8 off.

How does Paul have so many pulls?
It would be difficult on guitars other than the Franklin, without a lot of helper springs and stuff. Most guitars will not lower a 011 from G# to F# either. I bet a Franklin would. The MSA I tried it on didn't and I haven't tried on any others.

The P4 Franklin pedal should be no problem. It will return sharp like all lowers do except moreso. Mr Franklin has a nice compensator for that but most folks just live with it.

The Franklin lever F# to G# and D# to E should be fine too. I'd just hold off on the G# to G and learn to use that B to Bb lever.

Just my humble opinion. After A LOT of years messing with this stuff.
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Mark Nix · From: Arkansas, USA

I wasnt going to do a g#>g. ??? It was a g#>f# on string 3 but it doesn't lower enough. Maybe that's what you were referencing.

I suppose the best I can do is to try one at a time on the 3 pedal. add the 8 string, if it's not too stiff, keep it and try the addition of the 10 string. If it is too stiff, ditch it. I suppose every guitar will/can react differently.

As for the LKV keeping the Bb versus keeping a f#>g to use with the AB pedals, I don't know. I would have to put in a double stop on the RKL to keep the switch available if I kept the Bb on the LKV. Mine won't adjust to make the C note. Or at least my tinkering can't get it there. I've attempted following instructions and it doesn't get close enough. In that case, where would I benefit by keeping it instead of the f#>g?

Rich Peterson · From: Moorhead, MN

I would leave off the string 10 to C# on the C pedal. You get a B minor 6 with the C pedal, B minor 7 or B minor major 7 with the knee levers. And with C and the Franklin, a D major.

But you could rod it up, try it, and if you don't like it, just tune the raise out.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

What you need to do to get the "in tune" C note, is a split tuner. I'm not sure what guitar you have, but basically you will add another raise rod to the bell crank on the 5th string lower. This because, if you tune the raise and lower at the same time to get an in tune C, your Bb will, well, be flat. Laughing

So, you will now tune the B at the tuning key. Tune the C# with the regular raise nut at the changer. Now engage the lever that lowers 5 to Bb along with the A pedal, and tune the resulting C note using THE LOWER TUNING NUT AT THE CHANGER. Next just engage the B to Bb lever, and tune the Bb WITH THE NEW RAISE ROD'S TUNER AT THE CHANGER. That is because the Bb will normally be a liittle flat, and the new raise rod will raise the string just a hair to get you in tune.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

As general observation you are using to much parallel movement in your set up. If you move every E string and B or F# string the same you eliminate many interesting chord voicings and cripple your counterpoint options.

You have no 5th string half step lower. You have traded one of the most fertile musical changes available on the E9 for a clunky way to play a minor chord.

Your original set up looks quite a bit more musically flexable to me.
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Bob

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