Sho~Bud Changer progressions ???

Kevin Raymer · From: Chalybeate, Kentucky, USA

Would someone share the progression of the Showbud changers/pullers over time ??

How long were they single raise single lower ??

When did they expand ??

What was the most advanced changer they made ??

What were the transition points.

That kinda stuff..

Someday I'd like to get another Bud, and I'd like to know a little more about them and their evolution.

Thanks in advance for sharing....

Smile

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Kevin Raymer
Zum / Knaggs / Breedlove
Fractal Audio

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

If by saying "single raise, single lower", I assume you are talking about the rack and barrel, or 2 hole pullers. That is incorrect. They are not single raise, single lower. If the rod is long enough, you could put a barrel on every pedal and lever on one string.
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Kevin Raymer · From: Chalybeate, Kentucky, USA

Ok....

Well that brings up another question.

I've read where folks talk about racks and barrels.

Don't understand what that means...

Sad

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Kevin Raymer
Zum / Knaggs / Breedlove
Fractal Audio

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

This guitar has rack and barrel.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=269962
Notice in the second picture, it doesn't have a cross shaft and bellcranks: there are two racks per pedal or lever, one for raising (nearer the deck) and one for lowering (higher off the deck).
The brass things on the rods next to the racks are barrels. To tune a change, you spin the rod, and the barrel adjusts at the rack. You can have as many changes per string as you want, and each rack can move many barrels.
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James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

It's Shobud, not Showbud. Easy mistake Smile

Check out this sight--Much good info here: http://www.planet.eon.net/~gsimmons/shobud/models.html

Richard S. is right, that the single/single changer is virtually universal. Single/single changer is, however the right term. Single/single refers to the rods you are able to use per finger. Double/single, double/double, triple/double, etc.. As Lane says, put a barrel where there is a rod running through a rack--that's your limits---as long as you have racks(or the two-hole pullers that REPLACED the racks). The two-hole puller with barrels is the same idea, and it replaced racks to shed a little weight and make the guitar a little more mechanically quieter.

The best system Shobud invented was the barrels behind two-hole pullers with single/single changer, in many Shobud enthusiast's mind. Me included.

The first model Shobud offered were the Permanants, with a single piece finger. Then the fingertip was introduced, and were the first all-pull system in the steel guitar world. They actually came with triple raise/double lower. Then the single/single changer appeared in the next model Shobud offered--the Crossover. It lasted only about 2 years and was ditched because the undercarriage was poorly designed. In theory, was a great idea, but Baldwin's bean counters virtually tied Shobuds hands and made them strip down the concept, of course, because Baldwin wanted to "save money".

the single/single changer survived the next two models and was a very successful changer. That was the Professionals and Pro II's--both roundfront cabinets.

Late '73-early '74 the Pro II came out with double raise/single lower and dropped the brass barrels. This was the first of the nylon tuners. Another change--there was a set screw in the brass rollers(that are part of the two-hole pullers). This set screw locked the pullrod so it would not rotate like it did to screw the barrels in or out--now the adjustmet took place with the nylon tuner screwing in or out, on threads on the end of the pullrod.

Soon after/ the Pro II roundfront cabinet was replaced with a square front cabinet--enter the "Pro II Custom".

Now understand this, and you will understand alot--The Pro II and the Pro II CUSTOM are different guitars. Many get confused about this fact---those are two different models--not created equal!

Along with these changes, more and more pot metal was used in the Shobud to shave cost. By now, barrels were history--all you could get were the newer all-pull fingers, first double single/then double double, then triple/double. The Pro III came along during the later part of the Pro II custom run. The Pro III had the metal necks. Then the scaled down body of the Super Pro--loaded with pot metal.

I lose excitement with the introduction of the nylon tuner era Shobuds. But that's just me.

This is the best I know, as Shobud history is pretty mysterious. Hope this helps. Smile

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James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Rack & barrel system:

Two-hole puller system:

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Justin Griffith · From: Taylor, Texas, USA

What James said!
The rack or 2 hole behind barrels are my favorite Sho~Bud design. The guitars with barrels are incredibly easy to setup, adjust and maintain too.
To me those and the permanent guitars sound the best.
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Edward Rhea · From: Medford Oklahoma, USA

Kevin Raymer says: "Someday I'd like to get another Bud, and I'd like to know a little more about them and their evolution."

Personally Kevin, I'd love to hear that you end(ed) up with a "roundfront shobud" w/single/single changer! Mine is, and it's reliable and sounds super!(the guitar, not the owner).
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Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

My favorite Bud's were the rack and barrel. Sure, they were noisy, but you could only hear it at low volumes. I feel kind of a "romantic" feeling towards the rack and barrel Bud's. Kind of like push/pull lovers feel about their guitars. I've played a 2 hole puller guitar a few times, but never had the privilege to own one (my loss). I then owned a Super-Pro. That undercarriage was horrible. The biggest mistake I think Sh~Bud made, was not angling the LKL cross shaft as they did in the earlier models. The pot metal knee lever brackets broke easily. The only one I ever broke was the LKL. Your knee arcs from right to left, front to back, and hits the lever at an angle causing pressure on the bracket going from front to back, breaking the bracket. The guitar when I got it was 8 and 6 (levers). By the time I got fed up and sold it, it was 8 and 3 because I kept stealing brackets from other levers. And I had to take a lever from my Kline to put on the cross shaft of the Super-Pro if I wanted to have 4 levers. Luckily, the Kline and Super-Pro both had hex cross shafts.

I wish I had the money to pick up a few Bud's. Those and ZB's are the best guitars made in my opinion, except for Kline (my favorite). And with guys like James and Michael Yahl, parts are no longer a problem. The only problem with their parts are, they make the parts already in the guitar look like crap. Their parts are are like putting a Rolls Royce next to a Yugo.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Kevin Raymer · From: Chalybeate, Kentucky, USA

Thanks guys great info.

What I think I have a hankering for is an LDG.

Where do they fit in there ??

Are some vintages of them better than others ??

Thanks.
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Kevin Raymer
Zum / Knaggs / Breedlove
Fractal Audio

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

LDGs. They spanned from '73 to the '80's, and came with the changers of the times--every changer Shobud introduced from the single/single on. The best LDG year is the first year run--the '73 round front cabinet with single/single changer and barrels behind two-hole pullers. But they are very scarce. YMMV
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"Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement"~old cowboy proverb.
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chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

'64 Permanent "under" and top. to be honest, I did some slight mods when I made the pillow blocks and remade the changer housings:

A Fingertip changer (not mine):

Jason Putnam · From: Tennessee, USA

I don't understand why they got away from the barrels behind two hole pullers.I can understand doing away with the racks, because of all the extra weight and noise. But the two hole puller system is fantastic. Works like a charm and its very easy to work on. Was it a cost thing? Or a We have got to do this because everyone else is kind of thing?
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Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Another historical question I've wondered about:

How did the system using barrels originate? Were barrels used in some previously existing mechanical system, or did Shot or someone else dream them up specifically for steel?

Skip Edwards · From: LA,CA

I think it was a case of trying to improve something that really didn't need improving. That's open for debate, though... the new system offered better timing of the pulls, splits, etc. And yeah, every other maker of steels was making changers that offered discrete multiple raises and lowers, so they were just keeping up with the market and their competition.
I agree about the 2 holers/barrel setup... it was, and still is a great system.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

"How did the system using barrels originate?"

I don't know, but,,,perhaps,,,, If you look at the pics of the perm that Chas posted, you can see they were using non-adjustable collars behind the pullers. Well not non-adjustable, but not easily adjustable. So maybe they came up with the barrels as easily "adjustable" collars?

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Rebooting this thread because it was linked to by a more recent thread...

Curious to know more about the fingertip. I've heard they were difficult to keep in tune.

Some guys have said permanents and professional and two hole puller models sounded best, where do fingertips sit in the mix?

Also, what are relative valuations on good condition bversions of these different models?

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Tom, Fingertips are no different than any other guitar--if set-up right and maintained right, they stay dead-on in tune. Neglect them, they get resentful.

You might look up Charlie Pride/Panther Hall album--Lloyd cut that live album with a fingertip called the "Lightening Bolt". That was done through a Twin Reverb with 12" D120f's.

Also note the Sweetheart of the Rodeo album with the Byrds--done on the same guitar and a Deluxe Reverb.

Wilburn Brothers Show with Hal Rugg--fingertip, sometimes a perm.

Earnest Tubb with Charleton--fingertip, sometimes a perm. So yes, fingertips are right in the middle of tone heaven. So yes, we could go on and on--Fingertips deserve MUCH respect.

the below link shows Lloyd playing the lightening Bolt. Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRYOTlA0i7U Smile

_________________
"Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement"~old cowboy proverb.
shobud@windstream.net

Mark Nix · From: Arkansas, USA

What about the screw type swivel and threaded pull rods? My pro II was built in late 73 (October I believe, I'll have to find the paper that says when) and has some slide swivels and barrels and some screw type swivels and threaded rods, they are all hex key tuning ends.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

SHO-BUD.. as stated...

I think the best systems were the two hole puller systems with the barrels behind them. Many confuse that with single raise single lower changers. All the pull raises /lowers are done at the cross shaft with the barrels behind the pullers. The only restriction is how many peds and knee levers do you have as well as the length of the pull rod...

The LDG's cross several variations..two hole pullers all the way to the last generation of cast pullers...keep in mind, an LDG started life as a D10 with the lower neck and mechanics removed.
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Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Mark Nix · From: Arkansas, USA

9 are like that on e9, the rest are barrels, and all barrels on c6.

Pedal 3 raises 5 with a barrel and p1 raises it with the threading

Between the two barrels on the left you can see a little nylon washer type thing on the threading. That's the p1 5string raise. It's the only one with a barrel and threaded one on the same pull. It's also the only threaded one with a nylon washer

Mark Nix · From: Arkansas, USA

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