For Sierra Session model Owners

Tony Palmer · From: St Augustine,FL

How many different versions of slide-in pickups were made? Did they really have much of a different sound (to your ears)?
I have two, so I can tell the difference, but I'm curious what other Session owners might think, as well as finding out what other ones might be out there.

(Lenny, I know you'll see this....!)
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Sierra S10 (three!), Peavey 112 and 115, Benoit dobro, Beard Model E dobro, Beard Roadophonic, MSA Superslide, Dean Nickless custom dobro

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

There were alot of different Modular Pickups made for Sierra Steels.
You could have any pickup you wanted put into one.
There are so many variables.
For example I have a Danny Shields triple-range pickup (three rows of magnets) that sounds great with a Twin Reverb, but sounds muddy with a Peavey amp. I believe it was designed in the late 60's before Peavey had a Steel amp precence in the market.
I have a Danny Shields Crap-Trap pickup (two rows of magnets) that sounds completely different than the triple range.
I have a True Tone 17.5K-ohm single coil that sounds different than those other two.
They all sound different if I use some kind of buffer (Lil Izzy, Goodrich 7A, or Black Box).

I've probably exprimented with a dozen pickups over the years, but honestly, I like the True Tone 17.5 the best and use it most of the time on gigs these days.
I recently picked up a True Tone 19K-ohm, and I can hear the difference between it and the 17.5K-ohm.

The thing about the Modular system is that you can compare pick-ups in a matter of seconds (no rewiring). Even if the pickup is not in a cartrige, you can still slide it in with alligator clips and test it out.

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

Hi Tony:

I have owned 3 Sierra Session 12 string guitars and have had every pickup I can think of put in a Sierra sliding bezel. I won't comment on the B6 side of the guitar but playing the E9 tuning the pickup I liked best was a George L EON model. I don't have the Sierra guitars any longer as I can't carry them and just about carrying myself these days.

I liked the George L EON so much I have them in my Zum, Mullen G2 and Carter. I also have an MSA D-12 Super Slide with George L 12-1 pickups as that was what Reece recommended. C6 on one neck and E13 on the other. They also work well with a Hilton VP and either transistor or tube amp. Also, I am now using the Eminence EPS 12c speakers in several amps and that makes a huge difference. Tommy White was spot on
in his assessment of this speaker. When I was crazy, much better now Smile

I once bought a Sierra guitar just to get the pickup and sold the guitar for $100 to a friend.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Hi Tony,

I used to play a Sierra Session 12-string (extended E9th) in a rock band. I routinely changed pickups between songs. For bright and clear tones (including country) I used a Lawrence 712. To get mellow and blend into our "wall of sound", I used a 912. When I was driving a lot of effects, the George L 12-1 did the trick. I also had a Wallace Truetone and a Danny Shields Crap-Trap pickup, but they didn't see much use on that guitar. I still use the Shields pickup on my 1978 Sierra Olympic.

It's amazing how much difference a pickup makes in your sound. My Sierra Session loaded from the front, so I was even able to use 10 string pickups in the studio where the low strings weren't required. I had a couple of them, but I don't remember what they were exactly.
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Jan Viljoen · From: Pretoria, South Africa

Nice thread.

I have a Sierra S10 and received an extra pickup as well.

The original is a Shields crap trap with 13,9 and 9,3 K ohms resistances. I like and play the front coil.

I found however that the middle position switch is not loud, may be cancelling the coils?
But when I turn the volume up it sounds good too.

The spare pickup is a True Tone with 17,6 K ohm which is also nice.

I use a Black face super Twin, Roland Cube 80 and a Yamaha solid state with Hilton, Ernie Ball and Boss pedals.

So, each pickup has its own character and sound.
Different musicians like different pickups for different songs.

Let the games begin!

Wink

_________________
Sierra S10, Stage One, Gibson BR4, Framus, Guya 6&8, Hofner lap, Custom mandolins, Keilwerth sax.
Roland Cube 80XL, Peavey112-Valve King and Special, Marshall 100VS.

Tony Palmer · From: St Augustine,FL

Thanks guys....really helpful!
I'm going to upload photos of the three I have....maybe we can create an online catalog of sorts for future reference.
Lenny, by coincidence that last 112 I bought (I have two) has that Eminence speaker in it, and it is a great improvement in sound and weight.
Pete, how did you get so many different pickups? I know (think?) you were associated with Don Christiansen at one time, but even so, I thought they just offered two or three models.
Also, are you implying "any" pickup can be used, as long as it's somehow fitted into the sliding case? That's intriguing....but where would I get a spare empty case? I suppose I could just buy another guitar just to get the pickup like Len did (!!) but methinks there might be a less costly way Wink

_________________
Sierra S10 (three!), Peavey 112 and 115, Benoit dobro, Beard Model E dobro, Beard Roadophonic, MSA Superslide, Dean Nickless custom dobro

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

Tony:

Like I said, I bought that guitar when I was crazy but the medication worked and I am back...*L*

Try contacting Sierra and if they have any bezels you could send them a pickup for installation. You could do it yourself but if the soldering iron is too hot you could melt the round stud through the plastic. The pickup is siliconed in also and removal is difficult if you find a bezel with a pickup. If you can find a few extra bezels you could use one as a test bezel and fit a pickup in to try it out without gluing it in. I use to do this for experimenting purposes . If you pick up an extra bezel I can show you how to do this.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

One reason I have tried-out and compared so many pickups is, for one, I lived about 10min away from the Sierra factory for many years before they closed.
Also, many Sierra players used to buy/sell/trade/compare them in the Sierra room at Steel Conventions ('95-'05 timeframe for me) where I usually had my Steel setup for Demo's.

And, yes, in general, any pickup can be mounted in one of those Modular Pickup cartidges.
There are some limitations depending on what kind of slide-in-plate is installed on your Steel, vs how many wires/taps the pickup has (and how many contact points the Cartridge has).
I have seen slide-in-plates and cartridges with two, three, and four, contact points.

It sounds like you already have three Modular pickups.
If you wanted to, you could remove the pickup from the least used one, and then you would have a cartidge to use for experimentation.
The pickups are usually held in place with that clear Silicon goo-glue stuff.
You can take a flat-head screwdriver and push it through the slot in the bottom side of the case to carefully push the pickup out.
You don't have to glue them back in place. I use a product call LocTite Fun-Tac, which is a removable mounting putty.

I imagine a guy could fabricate a slide-in plate made out of wood in a matter of minutes by copying the original design, and then add contacts using parts from Radio-Shack.
It doesn't need to be the same exact shape as the original cartridge.
Maybe I will make a few myself someday.
fwiw, I have also seen some guys mount two regular guitar pickups into one of the cartridges.
I also have one where the wires come out the side of the cartridge because the electronics didn't match (4-wire pickup, 3-contact slide-in-plate). I have a female 1/4" jack mounted in a small Radio Shack project box that I plug into when I use that pickup, instead of the jack mounted on the guitar.

I believe the MSA type of slide-in plate that attaches to the pickup is just a part that attaches to the bottom of the pickup.
Here is a pick pf the slide-in-plate mounted to the bottom of a pickup for an MSA:

Tony Palmer · From: St Augustine,FL

Jeez this info just gets better and better!
Bob what I meant by an online catalog was more of a collective inventory of what players have right now, at this point in time, just a spreadsheet of sorts.
Then....maybe we could offer a swap service so we could try and perhaps buy, other Sierra modular pickups from each other.
_________________
Sierra S10 (three!), Peavey 112 and 115, Benoit dobro, Beard Model E dobro, Beard Roadophonic, MSA Superslide, Dean Nickless custom dobro

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Cool idea, Tony. Maybe a "Sierra pickup swap" topic in the "Wanted To Buy" section could do the trick.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video

Jan Viljoen · From: Pretoria, South Africa

Just adding to my post.

I still wonder why the Shields crap trap double sounds quieter in the middle position than either side.
Help please, because it is not a humbucker, or is it?Each coil works on it's own.
I do not want to open the casset to examine it.

The previous owner ordered the True Tone as he did not like the crap trap, but to me they sound almost the same.
I use the front coil with just a touch of treble and the twang really comes out.

What is the history of Danny Shields, how did he experiment? I dont know all the gurus.

Rolling Eyes

_________________
Sierra S10, Stage One, Gibson BR4, Framus, Guya 6&8, Hofner lap, Custom mandolins, Keilwerth sax.
Roland Cube 80XL, Peavey112-Valve King and Special, Marshall 100VS.

Jan Viljoen · From: Pretoria, South Africa

I found this link to pickups. Danny Shields is also mentioned there.

http://steelguitarbuilder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=602&start=20

Idea

_________________
Sierra S10, Stage One, Gibson BR4, Framus, Guya 6&8, Hofner lap, Custom mandolins, Keilwerth sax.
Roland Cube 80XL, Peavey112-Valve King and Special, Marshall 100VS.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

The crap trap is a humbucker that has a single-coil position.
When you split the coils, you are basically cutting the output level.
This is one reason we use a volume pedal. So you can set some Max volume that is way louder than you would ever use, but if you switch from humbucker to single-coil you still have plenty of range in the volume pedal to keep the actual volume (a better word might be "Loudness") the same.
Some guys have a Boost pedal somewhere in the system, and when they go to single-coil mode, they hit the boost to bring the volume in line with humbucker mode.
If you want to know which coil, or coils, are active as you switch positions, you can use an allen wrench to lightly tap on the magnets. One row will be much louder than the other in split coil mode, Both rows should be about the same in Humbucker mode.

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