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Topic: Fender 400 questions |
Jim Rossen
From:
Iowa, USA
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Posted 1 Aug 2014 6:15 am |
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What is the 400 string spacing- is it like a non-pedal 8 string or more like a typical 10 string PSG neck minus 2 strings?
What are the characteristics, advantages and disadvantages of the different 400 models?
Thanks
Jim |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 1 Aug 2014 1:26 pm
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The spacing may be slightly smaller than some non-pedal 8-string steels, but it's really kinda like a 10-string with 2 less strings. The older long-scale models, at 24 1/2" won't tolerate the standard E9th tuning, so most players back in the day played a D9th, same tuning a full tone lower. Some of the long-scale guitars have added roller bridges and nuts, and some don't. (But, that doesn't mean they'll tolerate E9th either.) The short scale models, made '63 and later, will handle the standard E9th, with only a slight tone and sustain difference, due to the shorter scale.
I'd recommend either for an experienced player, or a beginning player who has no desire to play all the latest chords and sounds. They're fun, and easy to use, but they really need a player who understands that they're not a modern guitar. They were designed in the mid '50s, so IMHO someone considering one should be willing to accept their limitations. |
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Jim Rossen
From:
Iowa, USA
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Posted 1 Aug 2014 1:51 pm
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Thanks.
I plan A6 or C6 tuning.
How about differences in pickups, tuners, changer etc?
Jim |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 1 Aug 2014 11:49 pm
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I don't know if they vary, but my Fender 1000 (the double neck version of the 400) feels pretty much the same as my Stringmaster regarding string spacing - which is one of the reasons I love it. In fact the tuner pans are the same as Stringmasters and (I thought) the nut as well. Definitely wider than a more modern 10 stringer.
A lot of people won't go near them as they are pretty primitive compared to modern instruments (the same reason I love 'em). A lot of folk don't like the wire system that pulls the strings. As has been previously stated - not the instrument to go for if you want to play modern (post 1970!!!) Nashville style stuff. But if you're thinking about A6, I guess you're not planning on playing that style anyway.
They don't have knee levers, another reason modern players don't like them (although they can be added) but, when properly set up, they hold their tuning fine.
None of the above issues seemed to slow down Sneaky Pete, of course.
For more information than you could ever need about all aspects of the 400 and the other Fender cable steels head over here:
http://z8.invisionfree.com/Fender_Steel_Forum/index.php?
Last edited by Jeff Mead on 2 Aug 2014 2:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 2 Aug 2014 5:17 pm
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| Pickup availability for an 8 is extremely limited, so it's best you just use what's there. The later (short scale) changer is a little better, but it's still only a single raise/lower, and you can only pull 1 or 2 strings with each pedal. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 2 Aug 2014 8:26 pm
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You are NOT limited by the Fender cable pull system on a short scale 10 string model post 1964 or so.
Unless you call a very smooth and solid double raise and lower system "limited"...
They will do anything any modern guitar will do NO problem, and sound incredible and play soft, smooth, and super accurate, and always in tune without breaking any strings ever,,,
8 string models, are more limited because they didn't have a 2 up/down changer, and of course no chromatic strings...
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 3 Aug 2014 6:37 am
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| Bob Carlucci wrote: |
| You are NOT limited by the Fender cable pull system on a short scale 10 string model post 1964 or so...They will do anything any modern guitar will do NO problem... |
Bob, while that may be your opinion, it's certainly not mine. Though the major difference in the post '63 guitars is that they have a double raise/lower changer capability, there are still many significant differences (deficiencies?) between Fender cable guitars and most modern steels. Aside from the fact thay have no knee levers, they will only pull one or two strings per pedal, they have no pull timing adjustments, and they also have no provision for tuneable splits or half-stops. So, in my terms of thinking, they aren't anything like most modern steels. |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 3 Aug 2014 7:36 am
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| You can put multiple raises or lowers on the early 400's but need to add adjustable stops (I use Emmons-like knurled finger stops) on the shorter of the changes using small brackets screwed to the underside. Also by adding an additional pulley one can enable the addition of an additional change to the standard max of two. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 3 Aug 2014 4:25 pm
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Bob Carlucci wrote: |
| You are NOT limited by the Fender cable pull system on a short scale 10 string model post 1964 or so...They will do anything any modern guitar will do NO problem... |
Bob, while that may be your opinion, it's certainly not mine. Though the major difference in the post '63 guitars is that they have a double raise/lower changer capability, there are still many significant differences (deficiencies?) between Fender cable guitars and most modern steels. Aside from the fact thay have no knee levers, they will only pull one or two strings per pedal, they have no pull timing adjustments, and they also have no provision for tuneable splits or half-stops. So, in my terms of thinking, they aren't anything like most modern steels. |
My last 800 had 6 pedals, 4 knee levers, and was the smoothest playing pedal steel I have ever owned, or close to it.. I don't recall it ever breaking a string.. maybe one.. It was "only" 2 up 2 down, but so were late model sho buds, MSA's and most other brands until the late 80's or so, when everyone decided you HAD to have at least 3 and 2 if you were going to play pedal steel.. nonsense... My modern steels play no better than, nor can I play any better on them than that old Fender.. i never once felt limited ... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 4 Aug 2014 2:24 pm
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Some days, it just doesn't pay to try and help someone here. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 5 Aug 2014 12:54 am
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String breakage for the high G# is helped if you follow the factory instructions and use the second tuning peg for that string and the first tuner for the high E.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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