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Topic: Clamping a Resonator Guitar on Top of a Pedal Steel |
Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 25 Jul 2014 10:41 am |
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This is something that I've been toying with for some time. If you clamped a resonator guitar on top of a pedal steel so that the strings passed from the resonator guitar's tuners, over the resonator, then ignoring the tailpiece, to the mechanism of a pedal steel, you would have a PedaBro which could be separated at any time without any harm being done to either instruments. There are only two obstacles that I can see need to be overcome:-
[1] The strings might not be long enough, so you might have to order them specially. But they make strings for long-necked guitars, so that should be no longterm problem.
[2] The angle that the strings come off the pedal steel's mechanism, plus the fact that the bridge of the resonator guitar would be about 4" higher, would mean you would need two items for the strings to roll over; one at the tail of the resonator guitar, and the other below it, by the pedal steel's mechanism. |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 29 Jul 2014 8:08 pm
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Maybe, a PICKUP? 
I'm crazy, but I ain't dumb.  |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 8:58 am
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| Would you explain that a little, Steve. |
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Storm Rosson
From:
Silver City, NM. USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 9:30 am
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| I think Stephen is saying u prolly need a pickup on the dobro ,if it doesn't have one already. I think somethin like a Fishman would sound real nice on a res-guitar, the roler nut-bridge could be fabricated fairly easy using balls offa guitar strings forthe rollers (as per some psgs) just an thought...Stormy |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 7:34 pm
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| Storm Rosson wrote: |
| I think Stephen is saying u prolly need a pickup on the dobro ,if it doesn't have one already. I think somethin like a Fishman would sound real nice on a res-guitar, the roler nut-bridge could be fabricated fairly easy using balls offa guitar strings forthe rollers (as per some psgs) just an thought...Stormy |
There you go, Alan. Storm explained it for you. And wouldn't you have to turn the steel guitar's pickup off, as well? |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 9:45 am
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| I don't see the relevance of the pick-up. My idea was to be able to use the pedals of the pedal steel on the resonator guitar. How you amplify the sound of the resonator is a different discussion. You wouldn't need to turn the PSG's pickup off since you wouldn't plug the PSG into the amplifier in the first place. |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 1 Aug 2014 7:24 pm
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| Alan Brookes wrote: |
| I don't see the relevance of the pick-up. My idea was to be able to use the pedals of the pedal steel on the resonator guitar. How you amplify the sound of the resonator is a different discussion. You wouldn't need to turn the PSG's pickup off since you wouldn't plug the PSG into the amplifier in the first place. |
So, you're doing all this, to play the reso ACOUSTICALLY? Or, are you gonna make the poor steel guitar player carry an additional acoustic guitar amp?
I may have a better, less expensive idea. I KNOW this works, I've done it. Call Ivan Guernsey, have him build you a reso, put a pickup in it, for tuning, and play the thing the way it's supposed to be played. Slants, and pulls behind the bar, to put a little style in, and you're good to go.
MY VA shrink is gonna love me! |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 2 Aug 2014 8:42 am
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
| Wouldn't it be a lot easier to hook up a Goodrich Match-bro or one of Tom Bradshaw's new Reso-pedals? |
Hell, yeah, Mike. That'd be what I'd do, if I couldn't play dobro already. But see, you're using logic, and good common sense. On the STEEL GUITAR FORUM???
Off with your head, sire. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 2 Aug 2014 8:49 am
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| Quote: |
... you're using logic, and good common sense. On the STEEL GUITAR FORUM???
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My Bad. I'll never make that mistake again.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 2 Aug 2014 8:52 am
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| Stephen Gambrell wrote: |
MY VA shrink is gonna love me! |
yeah! he's got a lifetime job. |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 2 Aug 2014 8:53 am
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| chris ivey wrote: |
| Stephen Gambrell wrote: |
MY VA shrink is gonna love me! |
yeah! he's got a lifetime job. |
SHE certainly does. Are you a vet too, Chris? |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 2 Aug 2014 9:48 am
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| Stephen Gambrell wrote: |
...
I may have a better, less expensive idea... have him build you a reso, put a pickup in it, for tuning, and play the thing the way it's supposed to be played...
My VA shrink is gonna love me |
You still don't get it, do you, Steve? I already have several resonator guitars with pickups, in fact, as a luthier, I've built resonator guitars myself. The suggestion was a method by which one could use an existing resonator guitar and pedal steel guitar and use the pedals on the resonator. Obviously if you already have a resonator guitar, which you would need in order to be able to try this, you wouldn't need to have one made as you suggest. 
Mention this to your VA shrink next time you see her.  |
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Storm Rosson
From:
Silver City, NM. USA
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Posted 2 Aug 2014 10:31 am
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Alan, you saying that u want to use the changer on the psg to somehow connect to and activate the strings on the reso?  hmmm if so, that seems like a rather daunting engineering task IMO. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 2 Aug 2014 11:41 am
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If I understand the concept, I think I'd:
Unmount cone from Dobro
Construct an enclosure that would hold cone at an angle (so you could get your picking hand in there) with enough force to drive the cone
Replace bridge blocks with roller nuts.
I think it'd be easier to:
Take a speaker with ripped cone, secure magnet to cover plate, voice coil to spider bridge
Take Fender Champ's output, send to reso speaker, or similar low power amp
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 2 Aug 2014 11:58 am
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Back when Goodrich was selling the Match-bro and Franklin was selling the Pedabro, Goodrich's selling point was "50 pounds lighter and $4,000 cheaper than the competition."
Nuff said.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 2 Aug 2014 2:08 pm
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| Alan Brookes wrote: |
| Stephen Gambrell wrote: |
...
I may have a better, less expensive idea... have him build you a reso, put a pickup in it, for tuning, and play the thing the way it's supposed to be played...
My VA shrink is gonna love me |
You still don't get it, do you, Steve? I already have several resonator guitars with pickups, in fact, as a luthier, I've built resonator guitars myself. The suggestion was a method by which one could use an existing resonator guitar and pedal steel guitar and use the pedals on the resonator. Obviously if you already have a resonator guitar, which you would need in order to be able to try this, you wouldn't need to have one made as you suggest.
Mention this to your VA shrink next time you see her. |
What's your point, Al? What do you hope to achieve? Where will this instrument be played? You gonna use a bar, or thimbles on your left hand, as you've suggested?
I wasn't volunteering my reso as a sacrifice to your idea--Your idea sounds like you've been living in one of those states that have recently changed their laws. You're a (self-professed) luthier--Build this thing, and post pictures with some sound samples.
I'll ask my doctor if she takes low-income delusional patients, on her off days, too, Al. I'll let you know. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 2 Aug 2014 3:37 pm
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I haven't built one yet, Steve. First I run ideas past others for their opinions. By the way, I'm not a "self-professed" luthier, I've been building instruments since 1963, and there are well-known players in the Forum who can attest to the fact that they are playing my instruments. I'm also one of the organisers of the Northern California Association of Luthiers. Ask any luthier in the western states if they've heard of me.
Lane, I shall probably end up building a Pedabro, as I've been mentioning in other threads. The idea of temporarily connecting two instruments was a suggested way of setting up a combinaton that could be reversed without adverse effects to either instrument. Once you start making modifications to either instrument it becomes better to just build a completely new one from scratch, which I shall end up doing.
Other thoughts I've had are using the mechanism from a Harlin MultiKord and attaching it to a resonator body via cables-in-tubes; the sort that they use for throttle and brake cables.
| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
| Back when Goodrich was selling the Match-bro and Franklin was selling the Pedabro, Goodrich's selling point was "50 pounds lighter and $4,000 cheaper than the competition." |
But the Goorich Match Bro is just an effects unit which simulates the sound of a Dobro. There are several similar units on the market, and Bobbe Seymour persuaded me to buy his version a few years back. Unfortunately, to me none of them sounds anything like a real Dobro. 
Last edited by Alan Brookes on 2 Aug 2014 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 2 Aug 2014 4:13 pm
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Alan, I hope you succeed in building a pedabro that actually works. If memory serves correctly, the Franklin had no volume.
Have you considered using a biscuit cone or something akin to the tri-cone system found in some National guitars?
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 2 Aug 2014 4:24 pm
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That's one of the things I've been giving some attention to, Mike. A regular pickup would defeat the object, so it would need some sort of internal microphone and/or a piazzo pickup (is that how you spell it?) For me, an internal microphone would be the way to go, as I could plug it straight into the recorder, but playing on stage with that setup could be a recipe for feedback. It's the eternal problem that people have always had with resonator guitars.
I've been thinking whether to use one cone or multiple cones, as in the Tricone set-up, or even cat cans. I have one of Duane Marss's Cat Can lap steels, I also have several regular resonator guitars and one tricone resonator guitar. They're all good sounds and they all sound completely different.
By the way, I'm not procrastinating on this project, even though I've had it in mind for several years. (Ignore my Procrastination Workshop - that's a joke. ) I've just finished building a console steel for a well-known member of the Forum and right now I'm working on an electric dulcimer project. In a short time this project will reach the top of the list. I've always got some project in hand, and between music projects I have a big model railway to work on.  |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 2 Aug 2014 5:12 pm
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"Once you start making modifications to either instrument it becomes better to just build a completely new one from scratch, which I shall end up doing."
See, we agree. From now on, Al, why don't you direct any of your comments to me via email, right here.
You can say what you want, without compromising the Forum. And I will answer in kind. And leave your buddy, Ron, out of this.
Last edited by Stephen Gambrell on 4 Aug 2014 11:48 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 2 Aug 2014 5:38 pm Peizos and pedals don't mix.
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Alan, I've experimented extensively with Piezo pickups. They don't work on a pedal steel guitar. They pick up all trhe mechanical noise. I tried placing them in different laces including the rear apron, under the strings the bridge, under the strings at the first fret, etc. It didn't make any difference. They picked up the noise no matter where I placed them.
I gave up on the idea of using them.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 2 Aug 2014 6:33 pm Re: Peizos and pedals don't mix.
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
Alan, I've experimented extensively with Piezo pickups. They don't work on a pedal steel guitar. They pick up all trhe mechanical noise. I tried placing them in different laces including the rear apron, under the strings the bridge, under the strings at the first fret, etc. It didn't make any difference. They picked up the noise no matter where I placed them.
I gave up on the idea of using them. |
Yeah--I remember when those Barcus Berry things were all the rage, for amplifying acoustic guitars. You heard the guitar, your arm, across the top, your tuners, everything. Buttons on your shirt, rubbing the back. But it made somebody else want to do something better, so they weren't a total loss. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 3 Aug 2014 10:18 am Re: Peizos and pedals don't mix.
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
| Alan, I've experimented extensively with Piezo pickups. They don't work on a pedal steel guitar ... I gave up on the idea of using them. |
But my experience is that do work on resonator guitars.
Check out this thread where I converted a regular 8-string guitar to a resonator guitar.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=117146&highlight=conversion+resonator
The guitar came with a Piezo pickup under the bridge, and I relocated it to under the new bridge on top of the resonator cone. It works fine.
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 3 Aug 2014 10:34 am
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Yeah but the mechanics make a crapton of clanks. I still don't know how Paul Sr. kept them quiet for the Pedabro.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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