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Topic: Use of microphones by today's vocalists............ |
Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 16 Jul 2014 6:46 pm |
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As a steel guitar playing musician, I'm confident you've had ample opportunity to observe down through the years, countless vocalists, both real pro's and wanna-be's, that insist on placing the round head of their microphone practically inside their mouths........
When did today's musicians give up the age old standard of singing into a mike located 8-10 inches away from their face, and turning their head so as to reduce their 'volume' into the mike?
With today's 1,000 horsepower audio systems, does that kind of vocalizing really require wrapping ones lips around the mike. Years ago, that would almost guarantee one a truly severe electrical shock.
Bring this olde timer up to speed. |
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Ben Elder
From:
La Crescenta, California, USA
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Posted 16 Jul 2014 7:21 pm
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Proximity effect with dynamic mics perhaps. (Not a good idea for condensers or ribbon mics.)
I suppose an analogy might be the breakup of tube amps at certain volume levels. Proxmity effect is (considered by some) a tonal enhancement of greater saturation, a little bit of vocal overdrive if you will.
(Now a real audio pro can take it from here and correct any mistakes.)
_________________
"Gopher, Everett?" |
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Tracy Sheehan
From:
Fort Worth, Texas, USA
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Posted 16 Jul 2014 7:49 pm Re to Ray
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Hey Ray. You have been in this business long enough to know most of todays so called vocalist need all the help they can get. Tracy  |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 16 Jul 2014 8:31 pm
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ray, i think you're probably old and disgruntled with the modern approach to stage performance. i know i am. they all make the same cliched moves and gestures with their annoying 'look at me, i'm so special' attitudes.
i can't imagine ever wanting to go to a concert with 10,000 rude pushy screaming people surrounding me....
unless i was safe on stage. |
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Chris Walke
From:
St Charles, IL
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Posted 17 Jul 2014 5:48 am
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Proximity effect. Yes.
Also, louder stage volume means getting closer to the mic so that less monitor sound feeds into the mic and squeals.
You don't see this practice in the studio (commonly) because the sound is much more controlled. In studio, vocalists are further from the mic for clearer vocal capture. And the mic is typically of better quality than a stage mic.
Times change. Practices change. The whole showbiz deal has changed. |
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Ray Harrison
From:
Tucson, Arizona, USA (deceased)
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Posted 17 Jul 2014 8:07 am
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From a vocalist point of view....
Soundmen vary, enough said. To me, the monitors make all the difference in how far I work from the mic.
If I can hear myself well, I can control my volume by moving closer or farther from the mic or turning my head away. When I can't hear myself it is extremely difficult to control anything, volume, tone, notes, etc. You are in a land by yourself.
Tracy, you're right, when a vocalist is singing with a five or six piece band they do need some help. Just like any other instrument in the group.
_________________
Ray Harrison
Bass/sing/Love PSG
77 Stingray/Kiesel 5 string bass
Telonics , Fender Rumble500, Polytone Amps
D-16 Martin, 1970 Ovation guitars |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 17 Jul 2014 8:39 am
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I usually have the opposite problem. Most people are scared of a mic and keep moving farther away. I keep turning up the volume until sometimes I get a squeal.
I hate when that happens!  |
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Rick Schacter
From:
Portland, Or.
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Posted 17 Jul 2014 9:24 am
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| Ray Harrison wrote: |
When I can't hear myself it is extremely difficult to control anything, volume, tone, notes, etc. You are in a land by yourself.
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+1...anytime I've had to get right up on the microphone, it was because the stage volume was too loud.
Regarding getting a shock in the good ol'days:
You can still get a good shock if things aren't grounded properly.
Rick |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 17 Jul 2014 10:18 am
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As others have mentioned it has to do with proximity effect in what I'm guessing is reflective of today's sound systems as opposed to those from decades ago.
I have done quite a bit of singing over the years and soundmen are typically telling me to get up there and almost "kiss the microphone."
It has zero to do with trying to look cool, or I'm so just so dang important that I need to to get my mouth right up on this thing.
_________________
Mark |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 18 Jul 2014 1:30 am
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Old sound man here. Mark's experience rings true. "Proximity effect" is the bass tip-up you get if you're too close to a studio quality mic which has a flat frequency response. Stage mics (like the SM58 - are they still around?) are designed to be worked close to reduce colouration from the PA system, and have a bass cut-off to compensate. If you sing at a "civilised" distance from such a device it's way too thin. That said, there's no need to eat it.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 18 Jul 2014 7:12 am
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(like the SM58 - are they still around?)
They sure are -
It's a few issues.
#1 Not many vocalists, unless they have studied, actually know how to use a mic as an instrument.
#2 Yes, it's loud. It's a band, and it's loud.
A singer with a acoustic guitar used to use A mic.
Look a Johnny at San Quinton. Nowadays, without a pickup of some sort, you will not hear the acoustic guitar with a band. It just does n ot cut thru.
For better or worse, it's probably louder nowadays.
_________________
Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
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Rick Schacter
From:
Portland, Or.
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Posted 18 Jul 2014 9:45 am
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| (like the SM58 - are they still around?) |
SM57's and 58's are still considered great and very reliable mics to use.
Rick |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 18 Jul 2014 10:11 am
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Mrs. Lee doesn't like it when I hand my mike to a guest female vocalist. She says "you don't know where that mouth's been".
Pro singers know how to work a microphone. Amateurs do not. It's like any musical instrument. The singer has to realize that the electronic system is part of their instrument. You can't just practice in the shower and expect to sound good on stage.
_________________
-š¯•“š¯•†š¯•“- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Bob Hickish
From:
Port Ludlow, Washington, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 18 Jul 2014 10:28 am
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You can't just practice in the shower and expect to sound good on stage.
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That sure blows my theory -I even use Ć¢ā‚¬Å“soap on a ropeĆ¢ā‚¬Ā¯ so I can get the hang of the mic twirl with the cord
Darn    |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 18 Jul 2014 1:00 pm
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| When I was in a high school band, The Penetrators, I once burned the mesh pattern from a Shure into my lower lip. Shocks never bothered me after that one! |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 18 Jul 2014 1:39 pm
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I can't believe how many singers I play with that don't even own a mic, mic stand, mic cord, Vocal effects, Monitor (in-ear or otherwise) or PA, or anything having to do with amplifying their voice in any way.
They show up to gigs at the full mercy of the house PA.
Sometimes I get texts asking me if I can bring a mic/cord/stand for them.
If someone asks me for a mic I tell them, sure, but I've been basically tongue kissing it for like 10-years, often with open cold sores on my lips.
I always carry a 57 and a 58, one for vocal, one for amp(57)... I also have two boom stands.
I use my lips as a range finder and judge mic dynamics from there... I'm not a real loud singer so not as big an issue as some others.
I also have one of those "MaDawna/GarthBrooks" headsets, but found they really eliminate your ability to use any mic dynamics, and pick up every sniffle or unwanted stage talk. |
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Rick Schacter
From:
Portland, Or.
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Posted 18 Jul 2014 2:14 pm
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| Pete Burak wrote: |
If someone asks me for a mic I tell them, sure, but I've been basically tongue kissing it for like 10-years, often with open cold sores on my lips.
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Beware of mics at open mic night. LOL!
I also hate letting the drunks come up on stage to sing one with the band.  |
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Arty Passes
From:
Austin, TX
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Posted 20 Jul 2014 7:14 pm
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I've been singing and playing steel for years, and have never been 8-10 inches from the mic on stage. I could, if all I wanted to hear was drums and guitars. These are not studio mics, where I would of course be much further from the mic.
I don't wrap my lips around it or eat itI, but I do get close to the mic on stage and make no apologies, and I'm no wanna be. We are all trained, seasoned pros, including our sound man, and we know how to use microphones.
We do play shows with 1000 horsepower sound systems - it's a rock show with country music and that's the way we and our fans like it. Not everyone does, and that's the way it should be. I can also appreciate smaller quieter shows too, but that's not what all gigs are about. |
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Craig Baker
From:
Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 20 Jul 2014 8:58 pm
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My two cents worth. . .
Whether doing a radio program or working live on stage, if the material calls for getting intimate with the listener, best you get right into the mic. Not loud mind you, in fact probably softer, but right into the mic. It creates a totally intimate result.
To increase bass response from most mics, position the mic below the level of your mouth and sing close, but over the mic.
When it's your turn to perform, it's your stage. Don't sing off-mic.
Best regards,
Craig Baker 706-485-8792
cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com
C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024
_________________
"Make America Great Again". . . The Only Country With Dream After Its Name. |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2014 11:51 am
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One guy in the Steel world who uses the age old standard Mic technique like Ray is talking about, is Jimmy Queen, who often sings at the Steel Convention in St. Louis.
He is a great showman and singer and player of several instruments, and when he hits a really powerful vocal note, he backs way off of the mic as he powers up to it, slowly moving the mic farther away as he increases volume.
I can't find a convention vid of him doing this, but I'm sure there is one out there. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 21 Jul 2014 12:16 pm
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Watch the late John Duffey. A good singer gets the mic set at a good volume, and moves back and forth to control the volume. And when he sang to project (he thought his voice sounded better when he turned it up), he'd be three or four FEET from it. But it hit the mic at the right volume. If he sang quietly (because he wanted those lower tones), he'd get right up on it and whisper at it.
I thought EVERYBODY did that.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 21 Jul 2014 1:46 pm
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| Different microphones are designed for different applications as well, your average studio mic that sounds great at 10" will not long survive the higher SPL of a live stage performance, and the modern vocal mics are designed to boost the low frequencies at close range, allowing even a whisper to cut through a mix with some reasonable degree of fidelity. A good singer will never eat the mic when they are totally wailing on a high note... |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2014 2:25 pm
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Most mics made these days will withstand about anything. The old ribbons may not, but modern ribbon mics may well be useable for everything.
They got a rep for being awesome on electric guitar cabs, and that caused people like Royer to design that in. Once Royer set the bar... |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 21 Jul 2014 8:41 pm
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| Quote: |
| Most mics made these days will withstand about anything. The old ribbons may not, but modern ribbon mics may well be useable for everything. |
I would not take a U87 on stage anywhere, and I would not put a ribbon mic in an application that demands a high degree of feedback suppression. Like I said, there are different tools for different tasks, and the very best stage vocal mics have a pronounced proximity effect precisely because that is what is called for to achieve the best possible results in that application.
Remember, however, that all great tools require skill and training to use properly... |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 21 Jul 2014 9:23 pm Back during my days on radio............
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We used to use a single 8-ball mic.
We'd all hold our positions and the vocalist would step aside when it was time for the instruments.
No feed back problems then of which I'm aware. |
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