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Topic: Entry Level Tricone? |
Patrick Harison
From:
Minneapolis, MN
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Posted 30 Jun 2014 9:26 am |
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I play in a band that does a lot of pre world war 2 hawaiian, novelty, blues, rags etc... I've been playing an old 70's regal spider resonator that's been doing an okay job. But after playing a friends tricone resonator this weekend, I've realized that's really the tool I need for the job. That being said, I'm a full time musician so I'm not sure I'm ready to drop the big bucks on a vintage national. Anyone have any suggestions here? Or maybe, I'm just better off saving up my pennies for a national? One interesting prospect is this guy: http://www.nationalguitar.com/catalog/hot-rod-steel ... He takes the recording king resonator and sets them up well with upgraded saddle and cone setups. Seems like that might be the way to go for sub $1000?
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Professional Accordionist, Amateur Steel Guitarist. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 30 Jun 2014 10:17 am
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I am well pleased with a Republic tricone I purchased some time ago.
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Patrick Harison
From:
Minneapolis, MN
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Posted 30 Jun 2014 10:24 am
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Erv, thanks for the vote... I'm thinking about checking out one of those today. You're not too far from me, hope we cross paths some time!
_________________
Professional Accordionist, Amateur Steel Guitarist. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 30 Jun 2014 3:56 pm
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| Save up your dough, Patrick. Just like with a Bakelite, ain't nothin' like the real thing. |
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Ian
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 7 Jul 2014 1:59 pm
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Patrick,
In the For Sale section Greg McKenna has an 8 string wood body tricone for $1300. He may have 6 string at a lower price. Why not contact him?
Ian |
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Chase Brady
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 7 Jul 2014 2:42 pm
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Has anyone tried out the "Hot Rod" steels?
http://www.hotrodsteel.com/
I seriously considered considered buying one, but tried a recording King Tricone in a store and didn't really like it. I ended up with an Adams dobro instead. Everyone tells me that setup is critical to resonators, and this fellow claims to do that himself and to do it well. Just curious.
--Chase Brady
Check out my YouTube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGB22R_hYOXh55h_zfazCPQ
Nice YouTube comments help local musicians get gigs!
My Web Page: pages.suddenlink.net/chasebradymusic |
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Patrick Harison
From:
Minneapolis, MN
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Posted 7 Jul 2014 11:04 pm
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I'm thinking more about the Hot Rod Steel, or just being a big boy and getting a National... I tried out a Republic squareneck that a local shop had. Sounded really great to my ears... Nice bass, sustain and volume. BUT, had TERRIBLE inconsistencies in workmanship. The nut was very asymetrically slotted (a string was basically falling of the edge of the nut!), poor neck joint (gap, glue around the edges), big knots/splits in the wood on the inside of the headstock, stiff/rough tuners... Kind of tough to imagine owning something like that, especially knowing that I would loose money if I ever decided to sell it to upgrade! That being said, like most of the imports, I'm sure the one I played was more of a miss than a hit. I would imagine that one made on a good day in china could be great, minus the lousy tuners. Really did play great! The Hot Rod steels, if at face value, should hopefully have a little bit more quality control... I still think I would get awfully nervous about gigging with a vintage national in bars and whatnot, so I may still be in the market for an entry level axe!
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Professional Accordionist, Amateur Steel Guitarist. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 8 Jul 2014 4:42 am Tricones
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First thing I'd like to make clear is that I am by no means an expert on old Nationals, new Nationals, or the Asian imports that have flooded the market in recent years.
One major difference in the old vs the new, is that the original square-neck Dopyera instruments were constructed with a wooden (maple?) headstock implanted into the end of a hollow metal neck. The neck was an extension of the two pieces of sheet metal that were soldered or brazed together to construct the rim and the back of the instrument:
Every new tricone I've observed -- undoubtedly someone will chime in if this is incorrect -- is constructed with a neck made entirely of wood, either round for Spanish style playing or square for Hawaiian. This allows for the same metal body to be mated with either style neck, such as this Republic Style #201SN:
I can't help but feel that this major design compromise has at least some effect on the sound the newer instrument produces. Of course the 85-year difference in age may have a considerable effect also, and good luck scoring an original square-neck National tricone for $729.00 these days! |
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Patrick Harison
From:
Minneapolis, MN
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Posted 8 Jul 2014 1:55 pm
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Jack, you have all the toys! Man, I need to get a day job... Anyhow, I believe you are correct in saying that no one (not even national) is making the hollowneck steel bodies anymore. Having played one, as well as the modern asian axes, they are different. I would say that the hollownecks undoubtedly add sustain and "color"... Some people also say that the solid necks lessen the resonance of the body by adding more mass. The other fundamental difference (as I understand it) is that the old (and new nationals) have thinner cones than the "continental" variety placed in most new import tricones. The reason why the asians prefer them is because the thicker metal is less likely to shift over time, therefore resulting in a more stable product. To my ears, the continental cones are louder than nationals too. I think the thicker metal doesn't allow quite the dynamic range however. That being said, all of this is pontification as I am certainly far from an expert!!!
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Professional Accordionist, Amateur Steel Guitarist. |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 8 Jul 2014 2:10 pm
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National Resophonic is making hollow neck tricones again, and have been since 2011.
For what it's worth, I've compared my 2002 National tricone against a 1929 National tricone (both style 1.5) belonging to Gary Anwyl, and find very little overall difference in tone or playability.
Would I prefer an old hollow neck tricone? Probably. Am I happy with my tricone? Definitely.
In terms of the "entry level" tricones, I have played a Johnson tricone that did not sound bad at all, but in my opinion, the real tone is in the Nationals.
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Brad’s Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
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Sebastian Müller
From:
Berlin / Germany
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Posted 9 Jul 2014 12:15 pm
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| I would go for a republic and swap the cones to national ones. I have a republic and a national from 31. The republic doesn't sound as sweet as the national but it is a bit louder and still sounds like a tricone. The National is my main guitar but I play both guitars all the time, the national with Hibass A and the Republic for Lowbass tunings like A or E or C#min. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 10 Jul 2014 7:33 am
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Thanks for the correction, Brad. I was totally unaware that National Resophonic resurrected the classic design. I was totally out of the loop from the late '80s until just a year or so ago; when I previously inquired, they replied that they had no intention of building them.
Patrick, you should call Nate over at Willie's and see if he has one of those newer National hollow neck tricones in stock. Likely a much better investment in the long run than any of the Asian knockoffs. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 10 Jul 2014 7:43 am
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Hey, man, start off with a good instrument within your budget and if it works out and you dig playing tricone, then set your eyes on the bigger prize. No one in the audience will know the difference.
BTW, Lenny at www.nationalguitar.com is good people and he knows his stuff. Give him a call (and tell him I said hello).
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 10 Jul 2014 7:51 am
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| Patrick Harison wrote: |
| Jack, you have all the toys! Man, I need to get a day job... |
Most of my instruments (and I really don't have that many) were purchased over 30 years ago; I'd never be able to afford them at today's prices. I feel very fortunate to have them.
That being said, I sincerely feel in the long run you will be much happier with any classic vintage instrument than a brand new Asian replica. Akin to the purchase of a new motor vehicle, you will leave a lot of dollars lying somewhere between the time you "drive it off the lot," so to speak, and the time it takes to get it home.
And, about that day job... I could use one too. Or a night job, or weekends, or swing-shift, or... |
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Mike Harris
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 10 Jul 2014 9:40 am Republic tricone
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I had a Republic (roundneck) tricone for years and was happy with it for the amount invested. We now have a National tricone and have since sold the Republic. I was tempted to try a different cone with it but never did. The Republic did not sound like a National but I think that would be too much to expect. I found both the product and the man behind it (Frank, from up around Dallas) to be more than satisfactory. Again, just don't expect a National for a fraction of the price. If you want that sound you'd better dig a little deeper.
Good luck with your search. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 10 Jul 2014 10:22 am
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| I, too, bought a Republic Tricone about five years ago, and I've been very happy with it. But I don't have a National Tricone with which to compare it. It doesn't surprise me that they don't sound exactly the same. Acoustic instruments from the same manufacturer, even made in the same batch, can vary in tone, and I imagine that various Republican Tricones sound different from each other. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 10 Jul 2014 10:31 am
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| Alan Brookes wrote: |
| I imagine that various Republican Tricones sound different from each other. |
Not to mention the Democrat tricones.
(Sorry, Alan. I couldn't help it!) |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 10 Jul 2014 3:30 pm
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Sorry for the typo. I intended to type Republic Tricone, not Republican Tricone.  
Actually, I believe the "Republic" refers to the Peoples Republic of China, where they're made. It's a play on the word National. |
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Kekoa Blanchet
From:
Kaua'i
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Posted 11 Jul 2014 1:18 am
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I have a Republic tricone. Like Alan, I like it but don't have a National to compare it to, so ignorance may indeed be bliss. I swapped out the stock cones and bridge for National parts (they are directly interchangeable) and did see some improvement in tone and sustain, but it wasn't night and day. Still, glad I did it.
As I recall, Republic's shop was originally near Dallas, and is now in Austin. I had assumed that the name referred to the Republic of Texas. |
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George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
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Michael Maddex
From:
Northern New Mexico, USA
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Posted 11 Jul 2014 8:25 am
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George, that's good to know. Do you have access to all their various lines: Gypsy, Weissenborn, Cuatro, etc.?
Patrick, I too am a happy owner of a Republic (of Texas, Alan) Tricone Squareneck. I picked mine up used. They are a lot of bang for the buck. AFAIK, to upgrade to the next level would cost me over $2K.
HTH.
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"For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." -- Arthur C. Clarke |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 11 Jul 2014 8:45 am
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| Kekoa Blanchet wrote: |
| ...As I recall, Republic's shop was originally near Dallas, and is now in Austin. I had assumed that the name referred to the Republic of Texas. |
Good. I'm relieved to know that the guitar was built in Texas and not using cheap labor from abroad. Too much work is going abroad nowadays. (I'll stop there, because I don't want to divert this topic into a political discussion.) |
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Kekoa Blanchet
From:
Kaua'i
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Posted 11 Jul 2014 10:14 am
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| Alan, my understanding is that they are imported guitars, with final setup and sales handled by the shop in Texas. So either "Republic" might apply. |
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Patrick Harison
From:
Minneapolis, MN
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Posted 12 Jul 2014 6:07 pm
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For those of you holding your breath... I ended up ordering a squareneck tricone from Frank. As it turns out the one that I had previously tried was a "B" stock, of course... no one told me that. Anyways, here's hoping that the one coming to me was made on a good day in china. Republic offers a 7 day return policy with no restocking fee, so I figure I don't really have anything to loose other than $30 in shipping if it turns out to really stink. The only reason I didn't end up going with the Hot Rod is because of the extra $150 in price that I would like to sink into probably replacing the cones with nationals and swapping out the lousy tuners. I did speak to lenny and he seems like a really great guy... Regardless, I'm about ready to drag this thing to every stinky, dusty, sweaty, drunken music festival and bar in the midwest this summer... So, if anyone is interested in buying a "relic'd" republic tricone in the fall, let me know  Anyways, I'm sure they'll be so clips of it in context that I'll share with the class...
_________________
Professional Accordionist, Amateur Steel Guitarist. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 12 Jul 2014 6:45 pm
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Patrick, I checked out some of your stuff--you are a really good musician, man. I can't wait to hear what you come up with. I have no doubt it will be killer.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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