Moving the 8th pedal next to the 5th pedal on C6th?

Marty Broussard · From: Broussard, Louisiana, USA

I'm looking for comments/feedback regarding the possibility of moving the 8th pedal next to the 5th pedal on C6th. I think I remember Jeff Newman doing this on his Universal set-up.

-Are any of the D10 players doing it?
-Pros/Cons? (both logistically and musically/theory)

Thanks for any useful comments.
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RETIRED

"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

I believe it was originally done to ease the shift from the two pedals.

Pedals 5, 6, and 8 all yield dominant chords related to each other, and having 8 in the p.4 position keeps the three chord configs adjacent.

What is lost is the combinations of standard pedals 4 and 5, and 7 and 8.

I think the majority of pro players that I know keep p.8 where it is, though quite a few have non-traditional changes on p.4
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My rig: Infinity and Telonics.

Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?

Marty Broussard · From: Broussard, Louisiana, USA

Thanks Herb!!
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RETIRED

"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin

Rick Schmidt · From: Prescott AZ, USA

I totally agree with everything Maestro Herb said! I especially don't like shifting everything else over to the right. The "Hold It" lick needs to be less overused anyway... Wink

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I moved mine next to pedal 5 a long time ago. Back in the day, almost every steel player was playing "Hold It", and it was a real pain in the leg (or should that be "butt") to have to jump from 5 to 8 and back again. The 2 being next to each other made the switching more comfortable and easier to do. I have since moved P8 and P7 to knee levers and love them there.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Or put 5 on a lever. That way, you don't have to double-foot to hit 5 and 7.
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Rick Barnhart · From: Arizona, USA

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that's where Austin Stewart has his 8th pedal.
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Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe.

Bill Cunningham · From: Atlanta, Ga. USA

Stephen Gambrell · From: Over there

Tommy Auldridge · From: Maryland, USA

My brother Mike put pedal 8 on a knee, so I did too. We got Billy Cooper to expertly do that about 35 years ago. Another important change we added at the same time was adding a knee to raise 3&7 to C#.. That along with pedal 5 gives you an A chord open, and if you release 5 , you get an augmented. That seems to be a really good set-up. Tommy.......

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

I moved it to P4 on my first double neck 40+ years ago, after seeing a chart that showed that Curly Chalker had his that way. I kind of wish I had left it at P8, but I'm too used to it now.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Jeff Newman arranged the pedals on S12U so you could easily play most any E9 or C6th(B6th) tune on an S12 with 7x4 (his original S12U setup did not have a LKR).
Jeff would say you don't need a P4 because no one uses it anymore... meaning, there is not a song on the radio that your band would play on the bandstand that you need P4 for.

So he decided to put P8 to the left of P5... reasons include... starting from an Open 6th position as the 1-chord, P8 and P5 become the 6-chord to 2-chord, which is handy for tons of Western Swing songs, Steel Instrumentals, or Standards (Night Life, etc...) that have 1-6-2-5, or, 3-6-2-5 chord changes.
When you start with P8 engaged as the 1-chord, P8 to P5 is the 1-chord to the 4-chord change (this would be your "Hold It" lick).
In these typical playing contexts, it's just plain easier to play P8 and P5 when they are right next to each other.

I don't think Jeff's thinking on this matter was meant to change the mind of any monster C6th players who use the standard P4-P8 setup.
As I recall him telling us when I attended his class in '82, He wanted to make it easy for newbs to be able to play what is typically needed on the bandstand, and at that time he was promoting his S12U with 7x4 setup quite enthusiastically.

fwiw, I have a Zum S12U with 8x5 that has the standard A-B-C-P4-P8, and I also have Kline S12U with Jeff Newmans A-B-C-P8-P5-P6-P7.
I use two feet as needed on both.

I would say switch it around and try it.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

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