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Topic: Advice on S12 Extended E9th Tuning? |
Donald Oakley
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 19 May 2014 1:25 pm |
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Hello, I'm a newbie with 2 nice steels. The one is an S12(7&3+up lever) that had an odd tuning when I first got it. The other is a typical D-10(8&5) with E9th/C6th. After driving myself nuts for weeks, I've decided to re-rod the S-12 for Ext E9, instead of a universal tuning. My logic may be flawed, but I'm thinking I may be able to play both guitars without too much re-thinking. I've already changed a few rods to this end. I'll attempt to upload my copedant showing the current one on the S12. I'm not sure what to do with the 11th &12th string F#'s, but I also have room for a lot of stuff on the 4 remaining foot pedals such as the Hughey (raise 1&2,lower6) and/or Sieglar pedal (raise 5,6,7 & lower9) or maybe something Cajun-esque (I heard about someone with a 'Cajun Pedal' on his Rittenberry, but as I remember, it was a lot of pulls at once).
Thanks very much in advance for any advice on 'tweaking' it. I'm off to meet the band now, so I may not answer right away in case someone asks me something.
As far as music I play, I've been in a Cajun band for 3 years (playing Dobro), and I may be joining a Western Swing/Rockabilly group soon.The band members love to hear my new steel, even though I'm just doing basic stuff.
Thanks,Don
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 22 May 2014 2:04 pm
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"My" choice would be to only put the E-C# LKL change on the 12th string. The other 2 changes on the 12th string would make the A & C pedal just a little stiffer than I would prefer. Just throwing it out there! 
JE:-)>
_________________
Emmons D10PP 8/4 -75'
Emmons S-10PP 3/4 - 79'
Emmons S-12PP 3/4 -78'
MSA Legend SD12 5/5 -06'
Mullen S-12 4/5 - 1986
Nashville 112 x2 W/Knob Guards - Don't leave home with out one!
Walker SS rack system - 12"BW's
Quilter Steelaire Combo |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 22 May 2014 2:47 pm
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I would also put the 1&2 raise on P1, moving A, B and C over to 2-4.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Donald Oakley
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 22 May 2014 3:32 pm E9th Ext. tuning
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Jim- Thanks very much for the input. I wasn't thinking about that part of it (the amount of pull) so that makes a lot of sense. I think I may take your idea, although someone said they loved the lowering of the 12th string E to D. Wouldn't that be less of a problem (pedal-push-wise) since that string lowers?
I also wonder how in-tune those lower two strings would be if I start messin' with them. Anyway, thanks again-
Don |
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Donald Oakley
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 22 May 2014 3:53 pm
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Lane-
Thanks very much for the idea. By the way, even though I'm just a newbie, I've already seen quite a few of your posts and you should be commended for all you do and all the people you help on this Forum. You're a good man, Lane !
As to moving the A&B&C one space to the right, to allow for a pedal to raise 1 & 2...could you elaborate a little on that ? I mean like how that helps in general, or why you like it, or do you use it a lot, ect. And would you suggest the F# go up a full step since I already have a half-step up on the Up-Lever? I'm assuming that pedal (the new, left-most position) could be found easily by feel without looking, and would be lower than the A Pedal? (remember, I'm a greenhorn).
Thanks again- Don |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 22 May 2014 5:10 pm
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Like Lane suggests, I also have the 1st and 2nd string raises on a pedal. It's on my 4th pedal next to my A pedal (I play Day setup). I like it there more than when I had it on a knee lever. The only thing I am missing is being able to let of the B pedal (3rd string) and pick the 1st string raised, then lower it and get back to the 4th string. Neat lick, but I didn't use it much, if at all, during the course of a night.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 22 May 2014 8:37 pm
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Don, the 1&2 raises (to G#/E respectively) is a supercommon change over the last 20 years.
Its most obvious use is on the intro to Brad Paisley's "He Didn't Have To Be" (because there are no other instruments distracting).
I'm busy with wedding stuff, but I'll try to do another one of my videos highlighting that pedal.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Donald Oakley
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 23 May 2014 5:06 am Raising 1 & 2 on Ext. E9th
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| Thanks Richard & Lane. What I forgot to ask though, is what do you guys think of combining the raising of 1 &2 with the lowering of 6 a whole step? Somewhere I read that that's the "Hughey Pedal" combination. What do you think? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 23 May 2014 6:03 am
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The 6 lower ought to be on a knee because it combines well with the AB pedal combination.
If you put the 1&2 raise on a knee, it makes sense to combine it with the 6 lower because, although they don't work well together, their uses rarely conflict.
I have my 6 lower with 1 to G: I rarely use both Gs at the same time, and I don't think I've EVER used the high G/low F# together.
I bet right now someone will say they have a use in their vocabulary for that counterpoint move.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 23 May 2014 7:36 am
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When I ordered my guitar, I had the 1 & 2 raises, the 6 lower and 2 pulls on my C6 neck on my RKR. It was really hard to activate. I ended up moving the 1 & 2 raises to my second LKL. While it was OK there, I couldn't hit it as fast as I would like, and I had another change I wanted there more. So I moved the 1 & 2 string changes to the pedal next to my A pedal. And I agree with Lane about leaving the 6 lower on a knee lever.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Donald Oakley
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 23 May 2014 7:46 am 6 string lower on Ext. E9th
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Good info Lane- I'm glad I asked. I'll put just 1 & 2 on P1, soon as I start cutting & threading rods again. If you had my guitar, would you stick the 6th string lower in with one of my right-side knees or not do it because it would conflict that way? I'd like to add a LkR to make it more like modern S-12's I've seen, but not sure if I can get one the same as what's on it now(I'm picky that way).Thanks,
Don |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 23 May 2014 7:49 am
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The 6th lower needs to be on the opposite knee from the E lowers, as they are used together quite a bit.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Donald Oakley
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 23 May 2014 8:03 am 1&2 Raises
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Thanks Richard, I didn't see your post until now. Wow, 4 pulls and a lower all on one lever does sound like a lot. Makes me think of the "Cajun" pedal that Gary Rittenberry put on for someone that pulled at least 4. Something tells me that even if you got used to the force necessary to pull them all at once,it would seem that it would be hard to keep everything in tune. I guess I'm a little off-topic.
Since I'm in a Cajun band I was wondering about that too.
Don |
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Donald Oakley
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 23 May 2014 8:07 am
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| I'm gonna grow another legjavascript:emoticon('') |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 23 May 2014 8:13 am
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the guitar would want to start "walking" to the right due to the force needed to activate the lever.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 23 May 2014 8:15 am
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And, since are still talking about what changes to add to you guitar, anything to do with the actual pulling of the strings is on topic.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 23 May 2014 8:18 am
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| Instead of copying some pedals that some other guy likes, maybe it would make more sense to pay attention while you play, and keep track of those moments when you wish you could pull a certain string up or down. Also notice which pedals you use rarely or never. |
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Donald Oakley
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 23 May 2014 8:55 am
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Point taken Earnest, that would be a good plan. My thought process was a little different because my guitar came with an oddball setup, so I knew I had to get started changing things in order to get to some kind of "normal". Not knowing much to begin with, I figured I'd rely on you helpful& smart Forum members to get me going, as if I'm getting a jump on what I'll want later. I'll probably end up doing what you're saying later anyway, but for now, I like the idea of taking advice for some of the common changes. I'm really glad this Forum exists. I'm anxious to get out of machine-shop-mode and back to playing.Thanks,
Don |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 23 May 2014 11:36 am
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If you think like me musically, or like what I play, you'll put the E lowers on LKR, the 6 lower on RKL or RKR, and the 2 lower on the other right knee. There are useful melodic uses for the ability to combine both pairs (the E lowers and 6 lower, AND the E lowers and 2 lower). I don't care whether the E raises and lowers are together or separate, but wanting to lower 6 or 2 along with the lowered Es is important to me.
See this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdfmMfzvcI4
Just noticed you raise 7 with the B to A# lever. I would rethink that. A# is the third to F#, and that's one of the biggest uses of the A# lever (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9aEyTaD3YA and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn1IY1E-uKU for example)
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Donald Oakley
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 23 May 2014 1:33 pm
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Lane , The ability to combine the 2 and 6 with the lowered E's make sense, but you probably didn't notice that I don't have a LkR to do it like you. Now I wish I did. Maybe soon..
I'm not totally sure about the "A#" Lever (our UP lever). How would you configure mine if you had it? I liked the video and how you resolved with the up lever, but I haven't figured out what's going on just yet. My theory is pretty weak, but I'll get there.
Don |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 23 May 2014 1:58 pm
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I had the 12th string raise to F# for a couple of years. Took it off and never missed it. The string is a lot more stable with just the two lowers (C# on the F lever, and D on the C pedal).
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Donald Oakley
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 23 May 2014 2:05 pm
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b0b-The F#'s a goner! Regarding the lowered 12th to a "D" though, did that have a lot of uses in your playing? Thanks,
Don |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 23 May 2014 2:44 pm
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OK, if you don't add a knee, I'd have RKR dropping 2 and 6. And for the moves I combine with the E drops? I'd pick the notes, drop the Es with your knee, and move your picking hand down to pull RKR. Until you decide to add the lever. Which probably wouldn't take long
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Donald Oakley
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 23 May 2014 3:35 pm
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Lane- That's interesting, especially since it would give me a way to impress my band members and pretend that I'm doing something really fancy & difficult.HaHa. In my band, for some reason, we all seem to turn into teenagers again when we start playing. Keeps me young(sort-of).
Seriously though, it sounds like I may be knee lever shopping soon. Thanks again for your advice Lane. I'm getting ready to head up north for a music festival, so I'll be away from computers for a few days (in case someone asks me something). Hope you and the other helpful guys have a good holiday weekend !
Don |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 23 May 2014 4:59 pm
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| Donald Oakley wrote: |
b0b-The F#'s a goner! Regarding the lowered 12th to a "D" though, did that have a lot of uses in your playing? Thanks,
Don |
Yes! Big rock power chord using B+C. For some odd reason it sounded better than using A+F. I used it a lot!
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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