S-10 without the D on string 9: suggestions?

John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

I learned on a 12-string E9/B6 universal, but for various reasons I'm thinking of switching to an S-10. Although I basically never use the B6 side of the uni, I do like the fact that string 9 is a low B that pulls up to the D on a knee lever. (Among other things, it means I can get an A6 tuning on all of strings 3-10 simply by holding the A and B pedals down. Add the E lower, and it's a 9th chord.)

So, I'd like to keep that on the S-10. Now, the question is, what to do with string 10? On the uni, it's a G#, but that's not terribly useful as the bottom note.

Any suggestions?

John

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Low E. It's wonderful to have that low root note. I also use it as the "Cello" string when I play String Trio parts.
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John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

My friend Richard Comeaux has an interesting variation w/o the D note. He has a B on s.9 and a G# on s.10.

The B is raised normally to C# with p.A, and s.10 is raised G#-A with p.B, so he has another full A chord triad on s.10-9-8.

He does wonders with it. Great player.
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John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

Herb, that's exactly what I've got on the top 10 strings of my uni. So I'd have no trouble getting used to it, although, to be honest, I rarely use strings 10, 11, and 12.

One other thing I'm pondering is that I'd kind of like to have a pull D# -> D -> C# on string 2. (I only have D# -> D on my uni.) But that's hard to do when the same lever is raising string 9 a step and a half. Everything is a compromise!

John

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Here is my "Extended E major" tuning. My copedent has been gone through by much better players than me, and their conclusion was that "nothing is missing".

My set-up on the PSG is a bit unusual in that the low strings are on 7 and 9, but changing it into the normal order works of course just as well Smile

Larry Allen · From: Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii

Here's my S10 Ext E9..Larry Very Happy

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John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

Georg and Larry, thank you both. Those copedents give me some good ideas. It's amazing what some folks come up with when they're willing to think outside the box.

John

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

John,
A lot depends on what you playing, and who you're playing with. In my small band, when the guitarist was soloing, I needed to cover the rhythm ground that he covered when I was soloing. I did that by switching from an S-10 to a Kline Uni. But now I can cover that with the low E on an S-10. Plus, it's wonderful to use in harmonies. Listen to John Hughey playing "I'm Not Lisa." You can do really great stuff by getting that low note in your harmonies!
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Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps

Jamie Mitchell · From: Nashville, TN

John, I did the same thing for exactly the same reason. so, no D string, low E on the bottom. For anyone thinking of doing that, I might recommend leaving the E lower of that string. gets you some nice chords...

j

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

My pal Johnnie Robbins has the low G#. I played his guitar last weekend and found it very useful as A for the A6th chord (with the B pedal) and as G# for the C# chord (with A pedal and F lever). I do a lot of alternating bass tic-tac stuff when I'm not soloing or playing fills.

If you have low E, you still have to get the A note somehow - maybe by lowering the B string on your C pedal or Franklin pedal - but you're still stuck without a low 5th in the A+F position. That might not matter depending on your playing style.
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Bruce Derr · From: Lee, New Hampshire, USA

I, too, recently went back to a 10, after 30+ years on a 12. On one of my 10-string guitars, the 10th string is a G# that goes to A with the B pedal, just the way it worked on my 12. But I also have some S-10s that just leave the 10th string tuned to an open A with no pulls. This was originally out of laziness on my part when re-rodding them, but I have found that it works pretty well and I don't often miss the G#.

For the D note I prefer lowering the 8th E rather than raising the 9th B. That opens up a lot of interesting chord movement possibilities, for example using the 8-6-5 grip. I also like the way it cleans up the chords on the low half of the tuning for thumb strums, etc. I lower the 8th and 2nd to D on the same KL.

That's what works for me. But it's always interesting and fun to see what S-10 "semi-uni" ideas others have come up with.

Norman Evans · From: Tennessee

I have the same tuning as Bruce on 2,8,9, and 10. I also lower 3&6 to G on a lever, this basically does away with the C pedal by moving up 2 frets and using the lever.

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

When I explored the possibilities for my new tuning back in the -80s, I pushed the low E up to A for a while to "cover it all". Worked fine with the right-gauge string.

Then I found that it was easier to cover the 7th string F# from above and below - 6th and 8th strings, and put a low G# in the 7th string position. Much later I added the 'low E down to B' change, that maxes out what I can do on that string.
Now I really do "cover it all" on 10 strings.

I tend to play on those low strings a lot, although often I just let them "ring along" as drone-tones to fatten up the sound. Always miss having those low strings when I play my regular E9 tuned PSGs, and my 12sUni just doesn't cut it the same way.

The "low strings in-between" setup - or "Twin Tuning" as I call it - was done that way because I wanted to keep the original 8th and 10th strings in their regular E9 positions for ease of transition between PSGs. But, I also found this "Twin Tuning" to offer a lot for my "lay back and pick/slap high/low notes" style of playing back then.

I like the "Twin Tuning" so much that I intend to convert the E9 neck on the D10 I keep in the US into the same setup/tuning as my old S10. Requires lowering of the bridge- and nut-rollers for the thicker strings to make them all even, something that wouldn't be necessary with strings in the right order.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

Thanks for all the great advice, guys. I have to say, some of you are a lot braver than I am about trying unusual copedents! Almost all of what I play is old school E9 country stuff: fills behind the singer, some intros, and some steel breaks. So I'm not inclined to go too wild with non-standard tunings and changes. I'm used to the uni grips (no D string), though, and it would be nice to get an extra low note on string 10.

As for whether to get the low D by raising string 9 B->D or lowering string 8 E->D, I'm used to raising string 9 and I like it. I've played around with the other approach on my uni by using P6, but I guess I don't find it as useful. When I play the no-pedals dominant 7 chord raising string 9 to D, I like the open voicing of strings 9, 6, and 4 just fine.

John

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

This is a bit off topic but this is what i do;

I tune my 9th string to C# instead of D...It allows me to strum full chords from strings 10 through 3, lot's of 6th's etc.

I then raise to D on the same lever that would lower and the reason i do this is because i have my E's on the same knee as my 2nd/9th string drop.

Also the droning and unison licks on string 10 and 9 are very interesting as they all be pedaled. It's night and day when swinging some fatter chords and makes for a close C6th sound especially when peddaled as string 9 and 10 are both now C#...

With the E's lowered a nice full 6/9 chord all the way across. You can strum all these chords and slide the bar from one position to the other without any blocking etc, just change knee's and pedals.
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