Should I change my LKR?

Michael Hummel · From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

My old Pro III still has what I know as the standard "Sho~Bud" copedent (almost the same as a standard "Emmons" setup). For my first two years of playing, I've resisted the temptation to change anything.

There seems to be somewhat of a consensus (as much as there can be a consensus on copedents around here!) that the lever raising 1 and 7 from F# to G (the LKR on my guitar) is more useful if it lowers 6 from G# to F#. Last night I flipped my guitar over and decided that even mechanically-challenged me could move the rod without too much trouble.

Is this a good idea? Should I leave the string 1 raise as is? I'm a bit worried that a semitone raise on 1 and a whole tone drop on 6 might not work that well given the lack of adjustment points on this type of Sho~Bud. I do use the LKR with A&B to get a dom7 a fair bit, but with the 6 lower I can get almost the same thing.

Anybody done this or have any advice?

Cheers,
Mike
_________________
MSA Classic 5+4
Too many 6-strings and amps to list

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I would absolutely move the rod, but I'd leave 1 alone. Many people raise 1 to G and drop 6 to F#
Or does your guitar only have one pull on LKR?
If that's the case, I would probably send James Morehead the money to add a bellcrank and rod.
I think I use 6 lower more than I use the 1 raise, and you can pull 1 with your ring finger to get G.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Michael Hummel · From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

As I said, it has 2 pulls, strings 1 and 7.

I think I'll give it a try this weekend. I can always move it back if I don't like it and/or it doesn't work well.

Thanks for the reply.
Mike
_________________
MSA Classic 5+4
Too many 6-strings and amps to list

Chris Reesor · From: British Columbia, Canada

I think you will love this change, Mike.
It is even better if you can tune the split with the B pedal, which might be an issue with your Pro II.
I would leave the first string raise as it is, as Lane suggests.
Your E's lower on the right knee, I suppose?
Cheers, Chris
_________________
Excel Superb U12, MIJ Squier tele, modified Deluxe Reverb RI, Cube 80XL, self built acoustics & mandolins

Michael Hummel · From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Hi Chris:

Nice to hear from a fellow Canuck. Right, the Pro III doesn't have tunable splits. It will be hit or miss. I was going to try it before dinner tonight but my wife wanted to tell me about her day at work so it got postponed Smile

And yes, the Sho~Bud setup has E raises on LKL and E lowers on RKL. I know lots of folks have the E raises and lowers on the same knee but I can't imagine that. Just the way I learned, I guess!

Cheers,
Mike
_________________
MSA Classic 5+4
Too many 6-strings and amps to list

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

You could achieve split tuning with another swivel and rod on the 6th string lever bellcrank.
There are advantages to putting the Es on the same knee, not for the sake of the Es, but because there are nice things available when when dropping 2 a whole tone AND dropping the Es, AND dropping 6 a whole tone while dropping the Es.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

I haven't worked with the g# to f# lower for very long, but I haven't found anything that would necessitate it being on a knee lever...i'm thinking about one on a foot pedal and freeing up that lever...

If I'm incorrect about this, please let me know where I'm missing out....

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

One of its uses is dropping the tonic A to a dom7. Hitting A, B and the extra pedal sounds hard
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Thanks Lane....(somehow jumped over the discussion above)

I wasn't using that because I was tuning the whole tone lower pure, and it sounded like dissonant crap with A+B+Knee...tuning so the dom7 is in tune, the whole tone lower doesn't sound so bad by itself. The magic of cabinet drop, I suppose.

Is there some kind of technology or technique to get both the whole tone drop and the split in pitch?

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I forgot which guitar?
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

74 shobud 1u 1d

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Easy peasy.
Get a swivel and a barrel, and put it on the 6th string raise rod and the raise hole of the puller.
Tune the G with the lowering rod and the F# with the raise rod.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Same as the pro 3... surprise..That's pretty slick. Thanks Lane.

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Exactly.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Michael Hummel · From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

So....I took the plunge and made the change today. It wasn't too bad, except that I didn't have the exact size tool for the blasted O-ring that holds the little thing on the lever...but I got it off and back on by holding my tongue just right.

Anyway, here is the problem...no matter how much I tighten the hex screw, I can only get a half-tone lower on string 6. It's not the amount of travel -- I think what is happening is as the pull continues past a half-tone, the raise lever is kicking in. I can hear the pitch drop and then start to raise a bit.

Is there anything I can do about this? This Sho~Bud does not have adjustable springs. The 6th string is a wound .022, which I switched to so that the B-pedal raises would be equal on 3 and 6. Do I need to switch back to a plain on 6?

This is not a big deal; I can always go back to the 7 string raise, but everyone seems to think the 6 lower is better.

Thanks for any suggestions.
Mike
_________________
MSA Classic 5+4
Too many 6-strings and amps to list

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Like I have said many times, my G# to F# lower on 6 is my 3rd most used lever. Wouldn't want to live without it.

But I do have the 1 & 7 string raises to G on another lever.

Use the G# to F# far more than the F# to G lever.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Michael Hummel · From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Thanks, Bob -- I have a bunch of plain 6th strings hanging around. I will try it tomorrow!

Mike
_________________
MSA Classic 5+4
Too many 6-strings and amps to list

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Sometimes, this raise following the lower happens when the return spring is too tight.

You did say the guitar doesn't have adjustable spings...my pro 2 does..

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Michael Hummel · From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Tom wrote:

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

I had a Sho Bud Custom II that had "raise helper" springs. I removed the one on the sixth string due to the same problem. The changer would only allow a half-step lower before the "raise spring" would kick-in, overpower the lower and engage the raise changer finger.

Pulling it off, allowed the full tone lower from G#-->F# to happen with no discernible change in pedal ease.

Michael Hummel · From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Thanks, Tony. Maybe I will try that first as I do like the wound 6th. Sounds better and as I said, matches the 3rd string raise better.

Mike
_________________
MSA Classic 5+4
Too many 6-strings and amps to list

Michael Hummel · From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Okay, I first tried removing the raise helper spring. It made no perceptible difference. Still was only able to manage a half-tone drop.

So I switched to a 0.020 plain string (from a 0.022 wound). Wow, drop to spare! I don't like the sound of the plain string as much as a wound, but at least I can make the change now.

I wonder why removing the raise helper made no difference? I just had the changer overhauled a few months ago, so I don't think there is any problem there. Is it okay to leave the helper spring off? I can't feel any difference in the B pedal action with it removed.

Mike
_________________
MSA Classic 5+4
Too many 6-strings and amps to list

Forum Index > Pedal Steel	Goto page 1, 2 Next	Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic