shipping again..more of an observation...

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Many of us know the story of the broken D10 in shipping a few days back, a bad deal..I certainly hope that gets resolved.

As I was scanning the FOR SALE section which I do everyday and have been for , well, maybe not forever but almost..I read how many Steels are sold, amps are sold etc...or traded..whatever..but yet we only read an occasional story of damage in transit which suggests that the shipping is not as bad as we may suspect.

Now I certainly believe that there are some cases ( not guitar cases) where no matter how good the packing is, damage can or will result. But I also know that if items are packed appropriately they have a very good chance at a safe journey. The issue here is we may all have a different opinion of what is appropriate and proper packing.

So how is it, question..that we have multiple sales, trades etc right here on the forum where folks are shipping all across the nation, including me, and we don't have multiple damage reports ?

I read where someone puts a Session 500 in a box..good grief , and Fed Ex ruins it...I am not surprised, maybe expected... An Item like that requires extreme packing, just shy of a small container. We can't just put that in a box , fill it with paper or peanuts and expect it to make the journey, it won't. First off its too heavy for a common truck driver or ramp worker to pick up.It's too heavy for ME to pick up !

Years back I bought a Nashville 400, the guy shipped it and god only knows how it made the journey. It was "professionally packed" which meant, put in a box, filled with peanuts. The box was damaged, not from the outside, but from the amp moving on the INSIDE ...the P-nuts settled to less than 50% the amp was walking inside the box, the speaker area was filled with peanuts, the speaker cone was filled with peanuts. The box was damaged from the inside out.

This brings up something that was mentioned in a post a few days ago, if a Steel can "travel" inside the case you can get severe damage with no outside BOX damage. If an AMP can "travel" inside the box, expect damage.

UPS and FED ex have a policy of double boxing, WE should have a policy of double boxing. I am no smarter than anyone else but I must be a better packer..I have shipped from my home well over a dozen Steels, S10's, D10's, S12's etc...well over a dozen amps, NOT one was damaged. ALL UPS. I ship Steels with access to the case handles, some argue that that's a bad thing...well when you see a driver carry a package to your door using the handle, well..

I may be doing it wrong but so far wrong has proven to be pretty good ...My method of packing is very similar to Greg Cutsaw's. It takes me about 30 to 45 min to pack an Instrument for shipment...the item in the case is tight, no movement, an approx 2" space around the entire case for buffer materials, the case handle has access but can also lay flat in that 2' space... For something if hi value, and weight, thats time well spent.
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Rick Barnhart · From: Arizona, USA

Bill Rudolph sent my Williams with the handle exposed, too. He clearly labled it "Handle" and had arrows pointing to it. There wasn't much else in the way of packing material to it. It's a good idea. The delivery guy carried it to my door like a suitcase. Heavy rectangular boxes are awkward to carry, which can lead to mishandling.

I hold my breath everytime I buy or sell and guitar that has to be shipped....what a sigh of relief it is to hear that it arrived safely. There's no such thing as damage proof packaging. It's literally out of your hands them minute you surrender the package to the carrier, but there are many things you can do to increase the odds of a safe arrival. Double boxing, handle exposed with rigid styrofoam blocks is a good start.
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Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Greg Cutshaw's method as a minimum base line, will increase your odds of a safe delivery. The "UPS Stores" have no concept of professionally packing anything. They can send a fax for you, however...

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Les Cargill · From: Oklahoma City, Ok, USA

I can tell you from direct experience that Tony knows how to pack a steel for shipping.

Jim Bob Sedgwick · From: Clinton, Missouri USA

A few years ago, I shipped my Peavey Mark IV head to be repaired (to the Peavey factory)
Upon return, Peavey had packed it. They placed the amp inside a plastic bag. Before placing the amp in the cardboard box, They sprayed some foam insulation (comes in a can at any hardware store) in the bottom of the box. They then placed the amp in the foam, creating a cap. Then they sprayed the foam around the sides of the amp and on top creating another cap. They closed the box. This foam expands and hardens. The amplifier could not move around inside the box at all. It arrived in perfect shape. The only downside was removing the foam with a box knife. Took over an hour.. I don't know of any method that would be more secure. Just food for thought. Smile

Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

I bought a speaker repair kit from Great Plains Audio last fall, a Altec 418b. It came FedEx, and trashed. I reported it immediately to FedEx, they picked it up and apologized and said they would be in touch. That's the last I've heard from them.

I called Great Plains, they apologized and said I would be hearing from them. Nothing.

It was only $104.00 so I let it go. It just wasn't worth the hassle. I am sure Great Plains has packed many items in the past, but the shippers can and will tear it up if they can.
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You can observe a lot just by looking

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

No, but it's like the Murphy's law says. "If something can go wrong it will".

The most irritating thing to me is dealers and shippers don't seem to be willing to offer anything other than an occasional apology toward the situation. At least that's the perspective from my end.

I don't sell and ship, so I am usually on the dirty end of the stick. Also, in my original statement if you notice I tried to state facts as I knew them. The only supposition I made was about shipper damage, and from my receiving end that assumption seemed fair.

I got a recone kit elsewhere, and as far as I can tell I am not trashing anyone. The truth is all I stated. It may not fit a desired narrative, but it is the truth.
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You can observe a lot just by looking

Jerry Van Hoose · From: Wears Valley, Tennessee

The owner/manager of my local UPS Store at Champions Gate, FL. knows and understands vintage amps as well as guitars, including pedal steels. He removes the tubes where applicable, labels their position, wraps them separately, then bubble wraps several layers over and around the amp. Then, he reinforces it with self-made cardboard corners. The entire, bubble wrapped amplifier is then double boxed. If he doesn't have the exact size box, he orders it, next day delivery and completes the packaging. The cardboard of each individual box is far more heavier and sturdier than any original factory packaging. Never, does he use any packing peanuts for this application. I've received positive feedback from forum members regarding shipping that I've forwarded to him. He is always very much appreciative of those who notice his special efforts. I would like to add that he personally watches the UPS drivers load their truck from his store.
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Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

FWIW,

the only damage I have ever encountered when shipping was with speakers via FedEx. In both cases, I filed a claim and was reimbursed in full fairly promptly. Seems like it's very hit and miss how those claims get handled.

On the other hand, I have received amps and steels that were barely packed at all. My favorite was a Fender Twin packed in packing peanuts, with the casters tossed (unwrapped)in the back, (unprotected) tubes still in their sockets. Not a scratch. A little damage to one steel, and a JBL D-130 gone to waste, but some amazingly unscathed packages with little protection. Leads me to believe it's all a question of whether the package gets dropped or not.

Robert Mayo · From: Georgia, USA

I build shipping crates for amps when I ship , the only time I really worried about a shipment was a vintage Fender triple steel that went to Norway.....but never had any issues. But due to the "out of my hands" once an amp or larger item has been turned over to the proper shipping companies and the extra costs associated with shipping amps (building a shipping container) is one reason I am getting out of larger amps.
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Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I would suggest for people shipping amp heads to consider putting a block from floor to at least the big transformer.
I received a head that had obviously gotten dropped by UPS, and the transformer pulled HARD on the chassis: the right angle was bent at the J-nuts and the screws holding the left (from the front) end of the chassis were bent. Presumably that was the shock that dislodged the 6 6L6s.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
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Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/red-hot-chilli-pipers-guitar-smashed-at-airport-1-2994130

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

But Ken,

don't they just smash them on stage anyway??

Wink

Don Griffiths · From: Steelville, MO

I consider myself fortunate or lucky to have never had a bad experience selling/shipping or buying/receiving a guitar.I did have UPS lose a camera I had bought for more than a month before finally finding it in the facility it was supposed to have been shipped from.It would only take one careless worker and one bad experience or damage to a treasured instrument to sour the whole musical experience though.
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Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

think about it, a Twin Reverb weighs just shy of 70 pounds, those of us that own them and carry them, we know whats in store...now put one in a box for an unsuspecting delivery guy ! The transformer side of a Twin reverb , like Lane mentions, is already problematic. I have repaired probably 3 or 4 Twin reverb cabinet corners just from years of transformtr weight, including my 71... And they were not even shipped ! It's lopsided weight.
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Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website

Jerry Van Hoose · From: Wears Valley, Tennessee

Tony, you're so right. My original 68 dripedge Fender Twin weighs 67lbs, my Vibrosonic with JBL is an astonishing, 85lbs (sale pending on that one) and my other Vibrosonic w/neo is 72lbs. My Vibrosonic w/neo is actually top heavy, could easily tip over due to excessive transformer weight if not on level ground.
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Leo Melanson · From: Massachusetts, USA

Shipping a steel guitar, a very expensive, very heavy item can easily go wrong. The guitar can be lost, damaged, stolen, etc. Agree that both parties should have worked out all those concerns in advance. Always get insurance, take photos before you ship and pack that is tight as possible. Agree on return and damage policies.

A few years ago, I shipped a steel via UPS. They crossed it up with another guitar shipment (which they were packing) .. and sent my steel to a stranger and a painted acoustic guitar to my customer who had paid me several thousand dollars. He called me upset that he got some crappy looking acoustic guitar painted with a hawaiian scene. It took UPS a week to straighten it out and get my customer the correct steel guitar which was vintage. Whew ...

A few weeks later I went into the UPS store and asked about the guitars. They told me that I had no idea the extent of the mixup. It turns out that the painted acoustic guitar was actually a very valuable guitar .... that was once used as a prop in an Elvis Presley movie or photo shoot. Go figure.

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Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

I would of chosen that Elvis movie guitar; as it's worth 5 times the amount of a steel guitar.
Shocked

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