| Author |
Topic: Cleartune user temperament issue |
Michael Haselman
From:
St. Paul
|
Posted 18 Dec 2013 7:10 pm |
|
Has anyone seen an answer to this? Just got a new phone and installed the latest version. No option for user settings. Sent a message on their website. No answer, of course.
_________________
Mullen RP D10, Peavey NV112, Hilton volume. Hound Dog reso. Piles of other stuff. |
|
|
 |
Steve Schmidt
From:
Ramsey, MN, USA
|
Posted 18 Dec 2013 7:28 pm
|
|
| Same thing here Mike with my nexus 7 tablet. |
|
|
|
David Hartley
|
Posted 19 Dec 2013 2:28 am Hi
|
|
If I ever have to use clear tune on the iPhone or iPad I use the following.
I don't look at the rotary scale, just the straight scale with the 'cents'....
F# = Â +6
Eb = Â -5
G# = Â -3.5
E Â Â = Â +10
B Â Â = Â +8
G# = Â -3.5
F# = Â +6
E Â Â = Â +10
D Â Â = Â +6
B Â Â = Â +8
A more accurate calculation..... In my opinion with clear tune.....
F# = 441.5, or 6 cents Sharp
D# = 439, or 4 cents Flat
G# = 439, or 4 cents Flat
E = 442.5, or 10 cents Sharp
B = 442, or 8 cents Sharp
G# = 439, or 4 cents Flat
F# = 441.5, or 6 cents Sharp
E = 442.5, or 10 cents Sharp
D = 441.5, or 6 cents Sharp
B = 442, or 8 cents Sharp |
|
|
|
Olli Haavisto
From:
Jarvenpaa,Finland
|
Posted 19 Dec 2013 6:14 am
|
|
I think I have the latest on my iPhone.
Go to info, then to
Temperament, click Edit
Click the + to add new temperament.
Choose offsets and save....
_________________
Olli Haavisto
Finland |
|
|
|
Jerry Jones
From:
Franklin, Tenn.
|
|
|
|
Michael Haselman
From:
St. Paul
|
Posted 19 Dec 2013 7:37 am
|
|
I have an Android. The last version I had I was able to program my own temperament presets. Not so on the new one. Got a feeling I'm SOL on this one.
_________________
Mullen RP D10, Peavey NV112, Hilton volume. Hound Dog reso. Piles of other stuff. |
|
|
|
Bob Hamilton
From:
California Central Coast
|
Posted 19 Dec 2013 10:30 am David Hartley
|
|
| Thanks for that info David, sounds great. Love your you tube videos. How about adding the pedal and knee lever numbers before I start programming my i-phone? most appreciated, BH |
|
|
|
Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
|
Posted 19 Dec 2013 11:08 am
|
|
I don't know why y'all have problems communication with Bitcount, they always answer direct emails (at the Play store, the address "support at bitcount dot com" sits right there).
Their response:
"The latest version of Android broke the method we used to create user defined temperaments. It looks like we've found a fix, an update should be out in a couple weeks."
I run Ice Cream Sandwich, and I don't have a problem, but I haven't updated since others had problems.
If any of y'all want to be beta testers, I can pass that on.
Thanks, David, for reminding everyone of the old school method....
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
|
|
|
Hans Penner
From:
Manitoba, Canada
|
Posted 15 May 2014 1:50 pm
|
|
Sometimes it would be better to NOT use the forum.
I have spent a good part of the day trying to use my Cleartune app after seeing it recommended on the forum.
My plan was to use it to tweak my Stage One for a cabinet drop of 4.5 Cents after consulting Jean Yves's program.
But now I am totally confused and therefore need your help.
Here goes:
String 1, F#, according to the manual should be 441.5 Hertz.
Here is what I have the Cleartuner set to:
With my StroboFlip set to SE9 I tune to F#.
Now the Cleartuner reads 371.5 Hertz, not 441.5.
What am I not getting?
Should the A4 Calibration be set to 441 perhaps?
If so the how do I do change this setting?
Perhaps an explanation about Hertz and Cents?
Any help will be much appreciated.
_________________
At long last, July 14, 2011 and I have a musical instrument I CAN play.
Stage One, Nashville 112, Hilton pedal, Black Box |
|
|
|
Hans Penner
From:
Manitoba, Canada
|
Posted 15 May 2014 3:52 pm
|
|
Thanx for your input b0b.
What I do not get is why Hartley says,
"F# = 441.5, or 6 cents Sharp"
What does 441.5 tell me when the app says 371.5?
When does 441.5 get used?
I am a beginner trying to figure it out.
Me - confused - certainly!
_________________
At long last, July 14, 2011 and I have a musical instrument I CAN play.
Stage One, Nashville 112, Hilton pedal, Black Box |
|
|
|
b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
|
Posted 15 May 2014 3:58 pm
|
|
Sorry, Hans. I deleted my post because I realized I didn't fully understand what you had been saying.
Think of 1 Hz of calibration near A=440 as 4 cents. 441.5 Hz means 6 cents sharp of the 440 Hz calibration (1.5 x 4 cents).
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
|
|
|
Jerry Jones
From:
Franklin, Tenn.
|
Posted 15 May 2014 4:09 pm
|
|
The 441.5 Hz figure is the frequency of the F# note relative to 440 Hz standard. The 371.5 Hz figure you see is the actual frequency of your F# note. Look at how your frequency figure changes on your Cleartune as you play different strings.
_________________
Jerry Jones |
|
|
|
Hans Penner
From:
Manitoba, Canada
|
Posted 15 May 2014 4:30 pm
|
|
b0b, here goes:
1 Hz = 4 cents
Reference tone is A at 440 Hz
F# is to be 6 cents sharp of reference tone
So, 6 cents = 1.5 Hz = 440 + 1.5 = 441.5
Got this I think.
BUT
the actual reading is 371.5
How does the spec of 441.5 end up with F# being 371.5?
Jerry, string 4 fret 5 - A is 440 Hz
At fret 2 F# is 371.5 and at fret 14 its about 770 Hz.
A little tiny bit to the right of fret 5 I get 441.5 Hz.
But that is not F#.
Sorry if I seem a little thick in the head.
_________________
At long last, July 14, 2011 and I have a musical instrument I CAN play.
Stage One, Nashville 112, Hilton pedal, Black Box |
|
|
|
Jerry Jones
From:
Franklin, Tenn.
|
Posted 15 May 2014 5:11 pm
|
|
The frequency of your F# is not 441.5 Hz, but is actually 371.5 Hz. The 441.5 figure is an easy way to remember how many Hz from equal temperament (440) your F# string should be tuned…… in this case 6 cents sharp. An equal temperament F# frequency would be 370.00 Hz and sharpening by 6 cents would bring the frequency to 371.5 Hz.
Again, the 441.5 is just a way of stating that the note you are tuning should be 6 cents sharp if your instrument reference is 440 Hz.
If the frequency display is distracting, you can always turn it off by selecting the "i" dot in the lower right corner of your screen and selecting "off" for the "Frequency display."
From your screen shot, it appears you have not entered your custom offsets…. I used the ones listed in the StroboFlip manual. Refer to this site if you would like info on how to enter all your offsets:
http://www.musicaantiqua.co.uk/Images/Issue_1/Articles/Edward%20Dean%20article.pdf
_________________
Jerry Jones |
|
|
|
b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
|
Posted 15 May 2014 6:38 pm
|
|
Basically, the 441.5 Hz is misleading. It's not the frequency of anything that's relevant. It's an artifact left over from the days before when tuners supported cents.
Orchestras sometimes tune to different standards. They use the concert pitch of A to define those standards. Some orchestras tune to A=438 Hz, some tune to A=441 Hz, etc. It's like someone yells "give me an A", the leader plays an A and everyone tunes their A to it. Then everyone fine tunes their individual instrument, and the orchestra is in tune.
Chromatic tuners were originally designed to tune orchestras.
In modern popular music, "A" is (almost) always 440 Hz. If you listen to 440 Hz and then listen to 441 Hz, you might not hear any difference. 441 Hz is only 4 cents sharp of 440 Hz. The difference is 1/25 of a semitone. They are both "A" notes. 441.5 Hz is not an F# note - it's still an A.
| the math geek in me wrote: |
| In just intonation, an "E" note is 3/4 the frequency of "A" in just intonation. 440 x 3/4 is 330 Hz. But it's also 500 cents below A in equal temperament. If you tune your E after calibrating to A=440 Hz, the tuner app display should show the center line for E to be 329.6 Hz. In other words, there's a slight difference between the perfect E and the equal tempered E. |
Hz readings for notes other than "A" are very confusing, and they serve no practical purpose. You should calibrate the tuner to A=440 Hz and just ignore Hz readings from there on. Do all of your tuning in cents.
Hz is a scientific measurement (cycles per second). Cents is a musical measurement (1/100th of a semitone). Hz is used to calibrate the tuner. Beyond that, tuning any other note to the Hz scale is bogus. Unless you're real good at math and science, an instrument should be tuned in cents.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
|
|
|
Hans Penner
From:
Manitoba, Canada
|
Posted 15 May 2014 7:37 pm
|
|
Thank you Jerry and b0b for taking the time to clarify things for me.
I take it that when people refer to Hz it is so others can deduce the number of cents one note is different from A which is 440 Hz.
David Hartley actually demonstrates this above.
"F# = 441.5, or 6 cents Sharp of 440 A.
I think I now understand.
_________________
At long last, July 14, 2011 and I have a musical instrument I CAN play.
Stage One, Nashville 112, Hilton pedal, Black Box |
|
|
|
Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
|
Posted 15 May 2014 9:54 pm
|
|
I have the most recent version, and custom temperaments are back.
From the tuner screen, hit the i button or the "options/tools" button, and select "Temperaments" (it defaults to ET).
When you have the list of Temperaments displayed, hit your tools/options/functions button again, and the "add" button appears
Press it, and up pops a screen into which you enter the desired name and values. Click Done, and Save, and it's programmed!
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
|
|
|
Hans Penner
From:
Manitoba, Canada
|
Posted 16 May 2014 6:08 am
|
|
Got it.
Thanx , Lane
_________________
At long last, July 14, 2011 and I have a musical instrument I CAN play.
Stage One, Nashville 112, Hilton pedal, Black Box |
|
|
|
Hans Penner
From:
Manitoba, Canada
|
Posted 18 May 2014 7:01 am
|
|
I now have a different concern.
I programmed Clear Tune according to Jean Yves site after splitting cabinet drop of 4.5.
Then I programmed my Stroboflip according to directions given by Sid Hudson.
Next I tuned my Stage One using the Stroboflip.
I then checked things with Cleartune.
There was virtually no agreement between the two.
Best was 4 cent differnce.
What gives?
Can someone else try this please.
_________________
At long last, July 14, 2011 and I have a musical instrument I CAN play.
Stage One, Nashville 112, Hilton pedal, Black Box |
|
|
|
Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
|
Posted 18 May 2014 7:12 am
|
|
1) What numbers do each use? From what I read (your second sentence makes little sense to me), it sounds like you have different numbers on each tuner. For them not to agree doesn't surprise me.
2) Indications on a tuner play a secondary rôle.
What matters is whether it sounds and plays in tune.
Pick whichever scheme works best to your ears on your guitar.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
|
|
|
Ole Dantoft
From:
Copenhagen, Denmark
|
Posted 18 May 2014 7:56 am
|
|
I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but I have a question which might also bring information useful to others:
Lane,
When you say that you have the most recent version, which version is that precisely and did you get from the store or are you perhaps a beta tester?
Mine says version 1.5.1 and I've had no reminders re. updates for it.
Ole |
|
|
|
Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
|
Posted 18 May 2014 8:07 am
|
|
That is my version as well. If you don't mind a stupid question, have you tried uninstalling and reinstalling?
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
|
|
|
Ole Dantoft
From:
Copenhagen, Denmark
|
Posted 18 May 2014 8:37 am
|
|
Thanks for checking Lane. Yep I sure have tried that. (Not a stupid question at all)
I'll just drop this app and use something else. I've spent a good deal of time trying to resolve this, as you may know from the other threads we have have met in.
Thanks for trying to help, Lane!
Ole |
|
|
|
Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
|
Posted 18 May 2014 8:51 am
|
|
Ole, I bet it'd be easier to just remember the offsets. It's how we did it for decades
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
|
|
|
Ole Dantoft
From:
Copenhagen, Denmark
|
Posted 18 May 2014 9:04 am
|
|
You're absolutely right  So did I for several years and I can still do that of course, it's just that having an app like this at my disposal has made me lazy I guess. I have an old Peterson as well, so I wont be completely tuner-less.
Ole |
|
|
|
