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Topic: Playing country on a non-pedal steel |
Paul Seager
From:
Augsburg, Germany
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Posted 22 Mar 2014 9:39 am |
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Well my adverts finally got answered and I'll be teaming up with some local and actually very experienced C&W players very soon.
So I packed away the Western Swing albums and reached for Buck Owens & Merle Haggard and tried to figure out how to copy the steel stuff played behind these guys (and boy those PSG players are busy!).
I'm guessing that E9 was then as now, the PSG tuning of choice but so far (ok, just a couple of hours into practice) I am noticing that those riffs are not coming to hand using C6 on an 8 string.
Do you think I need to change the tuning and if so, to what? Or are there certain characteristics to Country that I just need to adopt.
Of course you could just tell me to stop whining and get my headphones back on!
\ paul
_________________
\paul
Bayern Hawaiians: https://www.youtube.com/@diebayernhawaiians3062
Other stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@paulseager3796/videos |
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C. E. Jackson
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 22 Mar 2014 9:52 am
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I use C6 for it, but I'll admit to not playing that style an awful lot anymore. The key is to have a very quick and accurate bar hand movement, whether you are playing single notes or simple harmonies. At times, just the very sound and proper execution will give enough flavor to suggest that you're playing with pedals.
I think I have done it successfully at times in the past, but I feel it's really important to get a few specific licks or ideas under your belt so you can play them with confidence. The things to remember are 1) dead-on intonation, 2) very quick movement to simulate the pedal sound (unless it is a ballad).
I like C6, but you might find E6 or E13 with a high G# more to your liking. For me, it's still a bit whiny-sounding. With C6 (E on top) it is real fun to pick all those sus4 and sus2 ideas. Listen to a lot Mooney and Lloyd Green's earlier stuff.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2014 10:37 am
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The E tuning with a high G# string is responsible for much of the timbre of country pedal steel. The essence of licks is found in 2 pedals: one that raises B to C# and the other that raises both G# strings to A. Many of these licks can be simulated with bar slants on E6th. For example:
| Tab: |
A D A E A
G# __5__6---5___12---13________________
E _____\____________\_________________
C# ______\____________\________________
B __5__7---5___12---14________________
G# ____________________________________
E ____________________________________
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The intervals are the same on C6th, but the timbre is darker.
The best, cleanest pedal steel parts in ballads are two-part harmonies. Any two-part harmony line can be played without pedals.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Paul Seager
From:
Augsburg, Germany
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Posted 22 Mar 2014 11:26 am
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Excellent advice, thanks
In the last 30 minutes I had actually started to move to my (very dusty) 2nd neck where I have an E13 with lo A and a hi F#. Was just thinking that it sounds a bit too sweet so I'll go a tone up on the 1st string. Great thing about this is that I'm at last starting to appreciate the subtle differences tunings bring.
Will let you know how I get on.
\ paul
Oh, and that guy in the Buckaroos ... might be the end of me!
_________________
\paul
Bayern Hawaiians: https://www.youtube.com/@diebayernhawaiians3062
Other stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@paulseager3796/videos |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 22 Mar 2014 1:14 pm
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If I may add to this, much of the sound of the style comes from your right hand. Don't neglect it. It's got to be clean, with good blocking and articulation. Sometimes blocking with your picking fingers is the way, then other times you might use a staccato attack that you can get with your palm blocking and your thumb picking across strings in a bouncing manner.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Paul Seager
From:
Augsburg, Germany
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Posted 23 Mar 2014 12:35 am
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Mike, yes I have already noticed the need for more blocking particularly when using forward slants. I also find your choice of word "articulation" to be very relevant for this style of music. I can't quite describe why but I can certainly feel it!
The E6 tuning is a blast! After a couple of hours I am still grinning as I play! Of course, some songs feel better on C6, particularly those in the key of F where I am still a bit clumsy on the lower frets of E6; but having the IV chord on the same fret plus using forward slants on either of the Majors to get to the relative IV; then there is the IV Major 7 too and the 9 ... errrm, actually shouldn't this tuning be called A Maj 9? Never mind! It's great fun whatever you call it.
Now if only I could get a Dom 7 back in. Know what? I think I need another neck! [quickly buys flowers and chocolates] ..."oh, honey ..."
Thanks guys!
\ paul
_________________
\paul
Bayern Hawaiians: https://www.youtube.com/@diebayernhawaiians3062
Other stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@paulseager3796/videos |
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Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2014 7:31 am
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| Paul Seager wrote: |
Excellent advice, thanks
Oh, and that guy in the Buckaroos ... might be the end of me! |
Well, that could be either Ralph Mooney (late 50's, early 60's), Tom Brumley (mid 60's) or J.D. Maness (late 60's and 70's). They were all excellent "pedal pushers". Brumley's famous solo on "Together Again" uses both pedals AND slants. Their sound is, IMHO, next to impossible on a non-pedal steel.
_________________
Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8 |
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Peter den Hartogh
From:
Cape Town, South Africa
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Posted 23 Mar 2014 8:00 am
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To get a dom7, I suggest you get aquainted with Pedal Steel player tricks, for instance, if you play in the key of G and you want to play a G7 to get to C, all you do is play a 2-string interval of the G chord and then slide it down 2 frets to "imply" a 7th, and then go to C.
Don't try to play full 7th chords. Just use 2 string intervals. (or sometimes a single suggestive note)
Check the forum for more tricks like this.
Another trick could be to see if you can use an open string that happens to be a 7. This depends on the key and your tuning. |
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Norman Evans
From:
Tennessee
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Posted 24 Mar 2014 3:42 pm
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| Try for a 7th three frets up from the chord you want to 7. Also the minor. |
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Jean-Sebastien Gauthier
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 24 Mar 2014 4:35 pm
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Look for Chris Scruggs and Kayton Robert on youtube and you will realized that not pedal need to play great country music!
In fact after seeing this video I sold my MSA pedal steel to buy a Clinesmith straight steel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfkSI5bpbzY |
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Ulrich Sinn
From:
California, USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2014 4:35 pm
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| check out the Don Helms book of Hank Williams songs. On the CD he works much more with the volume pedal and it immediately gets more country. |
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Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2014 8:30 pm
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| Ulrich Sinn wrote: |
| check out the Don Helms book of Hank Williams songs. On the CD he works much more with the volume pedal and it immediately gets more country. |
I never knew that Don was EVER non-country. Pedal steel only replaced the lap steel in the early 60's. That means, from roughly 1935 to 1960 or so (25+ years) the non-pedal steel WAS the sound of country music (and I play and love both, Hawaiian, too, for those of you who know me well)!
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Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8 |
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Ulrich Sinn
From:
California, USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2014 10:57 pm
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point taken.  |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2014 6:54 am
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Mike Auldridge used a tuning called C9 for PSG imitation. It worked very well for him. His instruction CD is still available. I'll look up the tuning for you though and be right back.
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Amor vincit omnia |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2014 7:07 am
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Here it is. Mike Auldridges C9 tuning. As you probably know, Mike played mostly resonator guitar. So these string gauges are most likely too heavy for an electric lap steel.
1. D .016
2. B .018
3. E .014
4. C .018
5. G .026
6. E .034
7. D .035
8. C .045
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Amor vincit omnia |
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Les Anderson
From:
The Great White North
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Posted 25 Mar 2014 12:17 pm
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I am going to jump in here say something many non-pedal steelers frown upon. To get a country steel sound that sounds like a pedal steel; learn to pull the strings. (I use a steel thimble to brighten my string pulling)
Mike Neer does a marvelous job of pulling strings and getting that E9th sound of a pedal steel. Listen to a couple of his video posts and you can clearly hear his pedal steel sound very. You can't get that sound with just your bar. I do it with C6th & E13th. It works tons better when playing my Remington D10.
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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!) |
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Roy Thomson
From:
Wolfville, Nova Scotia,Canada
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Posted 25 Mar 2014 12:54 pm
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You can get a pedal feel on a lap steel without the pull but it takes practice and the right hand muting has to be timed accurately.
Here is a sample of my 6 string C6th standard tuning playing some country. If it turns you on shoot me an email...if it does not...I tried. 
http://picosong.com/eJYN
I will help all I can.
Roy
_________________
Custom Tabs Various Tunings
Courses Lap Steel, Pedal Steel |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2014 2:41 pm
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| Jack Aldrich wrote: |
| That means the non-pedal steel WAS the sound of country music |
Yet oddly, not a single person called it that for many more decades until the world went completely inside out and upside down.
With a high G I can replicate pedal steel sufficiently enuf with glissing at the right moments/ways and such.
Peter's interval comments were worth searching out more. |
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C. E. Jackson
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Les Anderson
From:
The Great White North
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Posted 25 Mar 2014 7:20 pm
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Doug, you and Mike Neer are about the closest I would say can fool someone into hearing a pedal steel in some of your playing on the non-pedal. In fact, I have listened to a couple of Mike's works and at first thought it was a pedal steel; and I could hear his pulling a couple of strings. You just can't get some harmonies with a bar.
The reason I like to do pulls is that I can get that extra voicing to sound like a pedal steel on my non-pedal. Like you however, I am a profound student of bar slants and strongly encourage them.
I can get my Guya to the pedal sound but when playing my Remington D10, the guitar itself has the pedal sound without my having to put extra effort into it.
Bye the way, another steeler who frequents in here is James Kerr. He can get the pedal steel voicing out of his lap steels. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2014 9:47 pm
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A lot of people don't realize that pedal steel is easier to play than non-pedal. It's actually a lot easier. All of the stuff that's hard to do on lap steel, you just stomp your foot down to get it on pedal steel.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Al Terhune
From:
Newcastle, WA
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Posted 26 Mar 2014 3:50 am
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| b0b wrote: |
| A lot of people don't realize that pedal steel is easier to play than non-pedal. It's actually a lot easier. All of the stuff that's hard to do on lap steel, you just stomp your foot down to get it on pedal steel. |
No kidding. If you want to improve your pedal playing, try nonpedal for a couple of years. I rarely play my pedal, but when I do, I'm always astonished at how easy it is to make it sound beautiful - but that's the lure of nonpedal (as has been stated many times and I'm merely restating) - the challenge of making beautiful music without the help of pedals and levers.
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Al
My equipment:
One heck of a Wife
The ghost of a red Doberman
Several pairs of reading glasses strewn about |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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