0.70 gauge string too big for hole in tuning peg! Drat!

Jonathan Slyker · From: Montclair, New Jersey, USA

Does anybody have a suggestion for me?

As a relative novice, I must admit that I was not keeping track of what string gauge I used previously on the 10th string of my D10 C6 neck. I'm sure it was a standard set that I bought commercially.

But yesterday I bought some new sets and all of the sets had 0.70 for string number 10 on the C6 neck. I'm finding that 0.70 gauge string is simply too big to fit through the hole in the tuning peg on my Fessenden D10.

Would you attempt to file down the end of the wire in order to make it ever so slightly thinner? Would you stretch it out at the end with pliers and a vyse, in order to make it slightly thinner but keep the structural integrity mostly intact?

As I say, I'm not sure what I had on previously but it must've been scant hundredths of an inch away from the .70 that I'm struggling with now.

So the discrepancy cannot be very much at all.

I would like to avoid having to get the hole drilled larger although I realize that's the permanent solution.
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MCI D-10 (Curly Chalker's last guitar) Curly's C6th on front neck; Johnny Coxâ€™s E13th on back with E9th pedals.
Widgren custom-built 12 string keyless lap.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

It probably was a .068.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

John Roche · From: England

you could remove an inch of the wraping

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

If you want a permanent solution, why not ease the hole?
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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

I had the very same problem on my Emmons with kluson style tuners. I ended up drilling the hole larger. It was easy to do, and it works perfectly. 70s are no longer a problem.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

Jonathan Slyker · From: Montclair, New Jersey, USA

Thank you guys so much.

It's always nice to know that the forum members care enough about a rather silly or overly detailed question and that I'm not the only person who ever faced this problem.

Have people gone to larger gauges for string 10 on the C6 over the years? It's strange that the guitar manufacturer knowingly makes a tuning peg that is unable to accommodate a relatively standard gauge for the string on that post.

I just bought another steel and I'm planning to sell this one almost right away; that's why I'm not looking for a permanent solution.

I'm the biggest mechanical klutz on the planet

I was thinking I'd find a circular file (I think it's called a rattail file?) instead of eating up my tuning peg with a power tool.

Does anybody know if this kind of file exists for metal and in a thin enough form to make it into that tiny hole in the tuning peg?

Alternatively I'm sure I can find somebody around town who works with metal who can do this job correctly.

If I buy a standard electric guitar string in .068 gauge will it work just as well? Any particular string construction type you feel works best on the pedal steel?

Thanks so much for your help.
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MCI D-10 (Curly Chalker's last guitar) Curly's C6th on front neck; Johnny Coxâ€™s E13th on back with E9th pedals.
Widgren custom-built 12 string keyless lap.

Mike Wheeler · From: Delaware, Ohio, USA

Since you're planning to sell it, just put a .068 on it and don't modify it. Many C6th sets use a .068 anyway.
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Best regards,
Mike

Jonathan Slyker · From: Montclair, New Jersey, USA

any old wound electric guitar string?
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MCI D-10 (Curly Chalker's last guitar) Curly's C6th on front neck; Johnny Coxâ€™s E13th on back with E9th pedals.
Widgren custom-built 12 string keyless lap.

Mike Wheeler · From: Delaware, Ohio, USA

Well, preferably of the same brand the rest of the set is from. Most suppliers sell singles. But if that's not feasible, then at least use one that's the same type...stainless, or nickle.
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Best regards,
Mike

Rick Barnhart · From: Arizona, USA

Jonathan Slyker · From: Montclair, New Jersey, USA

Thanks so much again you fellas. Anybody want to buy a used Fessenden D-10 with a too-small tuning peg? HaHa
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MCI D-10 (Curly Chalker's last guitar) Curly's C6th on front neck; Johnny Coxâ€™s E13th on back with E9th pedals.
Widgren custom-built 12 string keyless lap.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Are you sure its too small? The hole in the Sperzel tuners on my Franklin are just barely big enough for a .070. I use George L's, which come with a .070 and have to use "force" to get the string through the hole.

Jonathan Slyker · From: Montclair, New Jersey, USA

I've never stayed at a 5 star hotel. But if I did, I question whether the concierge could solve my problem as many ways or as completely as the SGF "team." Who knew! There is hope for mankind after all.

Now I did shove as hard as I could given the limited leverage, angle, etc. HOWEVER, Jack, your persistence and refusal to take my complaint at face value set off another lightbulb!

when we want metal to move thru metal and there is resistance, what do we do?

LUBE LUBE LUBE

Since I use it on my moving parts underneath the steel, and it seems to work great and cause no residue, silicon spray would seem an ideal candidate for a lube of the string in the hole that might just do the trick. (I'm trying like hell not to make any filthy double meanings, but it's hard).

Any votes against a light spray of silicon lube? Any alternative suggestions? graphite? light machine oil? wax? soap?

Congratulations to Jack for perseverence and calm in the heat of battle (sorry for mixed metaphors).
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MCI D-10 (Curly Chalker's last guitar) Curly's C6th on front neck; Johnny Coxâ€™s E13th on back with E9th pedals.
Widgren custom-built 12 string keyless lap.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I haven't tried lube, but I have considered enlarging the hole. Since I can get the .070 to go thru, even tho it requires "force" I haven't pursued enlarging the hole. Since you mentioned it, I'm going to try a small drop of oil in the hole before trying to insert the string. Oil won't cause any tonal issues there.

Jerry Jones · From: Franklin, Tenn.

Drill that key out with a #50 (.070) or #49 (.073) drill bit. I doubt you'd even notice the hole is now larger.
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Jerry Jones

Bobby Boggs · From: Upstate SC.

A drop of oil spread over the area going thru the tuning machine and a hard push as always worked for me.

Remember to clean the oil from your hands when finished. Even a small amount of oil can ruin the sound of strings if it gets between the roller bridge and the changer area. In other words. You don't want oil in the area you're going to try to make music in.

bb

Jonathan Slyker · From: Montclair, New Jersey, USA

Jerry, we'll affectionately call you "the Terminator" from now on. A drill in your hands is not the same drill as a drill in my hands, believe me.

Bobby, thanks for lube thoughts. any votes AGAINST silicone spray?
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MCI D-10 (Curly Chalker's last guitar) Curly's C6th on front neck; Johnny Coxâ€™s E13th on back with E9th pedals.
Widgren custom-built 12 string keyless lap.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Silicone spray is OK, but it can get on things you don't want when trying just to get some on the hole in the tuning key. One small drop of oil would be a better option.

Jerry Jones · From: Franklin, Tenn.

Well Jonathan, sounds like with drill in your hands makes YOU the "Terminator."
Seriously though, looks like you have some good advice here. Wink

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Jerry Jones

Jonathan Slyker · From: Montclair, New Jersey, USA

Well, Arnold did the termination thing for the good, valiantly, etc. definitely permanent solution.

In this role play I can be Inspector Cluseau (sp?). Remember the cigar in the guillotine?

But let's not fight over who's what kind of hero!

GREAT RESPONSES.

I feel so gratified. Thanks again, guys.

I'll let you know what happens.
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MCI D-10 (Curly Chalker's last guitar) Curly's C6th on front neck; Johnny Coxâ€™s E13th on back with E9th pedals.
Widgren custom-built 12 string keyless lap.

Chris Johnson · From: USA

Filing the tuning peg worked fine for me when putting on the 74.

Jonathan Slyker · From: Montclair, New Jersey, USA

Filing. I was interested in that too. That would allow me to destroy my guitar NICE AND SLOW.

Just kidding. Seems like I'm going to go the MINIMAL IMPACT route, mainly just to pass the problem on to a (hypothetical) new owner. He's a big boy (or she's a big girl, you know what I mean).

Right now, after sending this, I've gotta date with a dropper, a bottle of light machine oil, and my tuning peg.
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MCI D-10 (Curly Chalker's last guitar) Curly's C6th on front neck; Johnny Coxâ€™s E13th on back with E9th pedals.
Widgren custom-built 12 string keyless lap.

Jonathan Slyker · From: Montclair, New Jersey, USA

Well, if you're not sick of me yet, you'll soon be.

The post-game wrap-up (no pun intended:

WD-40- no appreciable effect

silicon spray- no appreciable effect

graphite- no appreciable effect

I also experimented with the "virgin" end of the brand new, oversize string, where the inner wire was completely exposed (i.e., no wound portion- this was the scrap of string I had earlier trimmed from the 0.070 string). I was thinking maybe there was enough of a gradual onset of the winding to feed the wound portion proper into the hole. But no dice.

So I took my $1.50 worth of wire and proceeded to rip it apart from the post end. I spit about an inch of the unwound end into the hole. No problem yet. I made my bend and wound a number of times till the wound portion began winding to follow the unwound. Nice tight winding of the full gauge string now. Was I home?

More and more winding, pulling the string gradually remotely near pitch. So far so good. Pitch is rising, rising.

Moments later, with electronic tuner into the game, pitch rising, then SNAP, CRACKLE, POP!!!

THE UNWOUND PORTION WAS SIMPLY TOO WEAK TO WITHSTAND THE FORCE.

And the nice Hollywood ending- "0.068 it is."

The End.

I'd like to thank all you who have made it possible.

Moral of the story- the "hardliners" were right.

Epilogue:

In hindsight, any physicists in the house- if I freeze the wire, does it contract the critical 0.002 inches? That's 2/1000 of an inch; not a lot to ask!

What about just raw steel wool on the damn string end?

What about a strong acidic wash?

Sticking the string on the fire of your gas stove for a few seconds then pulling it out like taffy?

Goodnight. Thanks again. Time to sell my steel!
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MCI D-10 (Curly Chalker's last guitar) Curly's C6th on front neck; Johnny Coxâ€™s E13th on back with E9th pedals.
Widgren custom-built 12 string keyless lap.

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. If you somehow wreck the tuner while trying to drill it, which seems highly unlikely, you can always just buy another tuner. The tuner on the tenth string on the C6th neck is easy to remove from the guitar, if you are really paranoid about somehow damaging the body of the guitar.

Just remove it, drill it and re-install it. You'll be done forever with this issue. It's not hard!!!
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

Jonathan Slyker · From: Montclair, New Jersey, USA

Paul, you're absolutely right. But the only thing is, my new still is in transit as we speak, and I would rather focus on that than a minor issue with the steel that I'm going to sell. The steel is in perfectly sellable condition. I played it for six years. This issue of the biggest possible string gauge on the 10th string of C6 can be easily dealt with by the next owner.

Most importantly, the discussion that has had such excellent contributions can be accessed if somebody enters compatible search terms.

In a theoretical note, I really wonder whether all other factors being equal, the .070 sounds different from a .068 to the naked ear of either a well experienced player or the average person on the street. That means, of course, same guitar, same string manufacturer, same string material, same player, and the only difference is the 2 1000ths of an inch gauge. Any betting men out there?

Thank you guys so much. I've got to go- I have mountains to make.
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MCI D-10 (Curly Chalker's last guitar) Curly's C6th on front neck; Johnny Coxâ€™s E13th on back with E9th pedals.
Widgren custom-built 12 string keyless lap.

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