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Topic: hardwood for amp cabinet |
Garry Pugh
From:
Nashville Indiana
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Posted 2 Mar 2014 11:19 am |
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I am in the process of ordering a Milkman amp. I would like to have the cabinet in hardwood. My original thought was walnut. Tim said he could do this and sent me a pic of what it would look like. It is a fine looking cabinet but I wondered if walnut would be the best wood for tone. I have a little experience working with and finishing wood but really don't know if ,tone wise, walnut is better than birch, birch better than pine, pine better than plywood, etc. Anyone have an opinion here?
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Emmons PP D10 8X5, GFI Ultra D10,both are setup up "Emmons" style. Quilter 202 Tone Block, Nashville 400, Milkman 85, Stewart PA200, BW and JBL speakers, Profex II
cell # 812-603-1612
Last edited by Garry Pugh on 2 Mar 2014 3:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2014 12:09 pm
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What does Tim thnk?
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Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe. |
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Garry Pugh
From:
Nashville Indiana
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Posted 2 Mar 2014 1:31 pm
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I did not ask him that question. I did ask could he do walnut and he said yes. I plan to ask Tim, I was just interested in what experience others had along these lines
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Emmons PP D10 8X5, GFI Ultra D10,both are setup up "Emmons" style. Quilter 202 Tone Block, Nashville 400, Milkman 85, Stewart PA200, BW and JBL speakers, Profex II
cell # 812-603-1612 |
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Willie Sims
From:
PADUCAH, KY, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2014 2:18 pm
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For what it's worth your question a bout what type of wood to use for a speaker cabinet, I seem to remember a long time ago when everybody was using Fender amplifiers, I remember a discussion a bout the tone of the Fender amplifiers. I think that they attributed the tone quality of the Fender amps, because they were built with Redwood. I'm even thinking about building me some Redwood Cabinets for my amps.
Willie SIMS |
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Don Griffiths
From:
Steelville, MO
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Posted 2 Mar 2014 2:51 pm
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I am so glad this discussion came up. I am planning some cabinets for some D130s I just got. I have some Redwood around and was wondering about that. I was not aware Fender had ever used it but that is good to know. As for as walnut for tone wood, one of the finest sounding acoustic guitars I ever played was built with walnut back sides and neck ( by Harvey Leach) . I can't help thinking Walnut would be superior to Pine with all other things(dimensions and construction methods) being equal. Only drawback would be availability and expense.But it will be a different tone. Brighter? I don't know?Maybe or maybe not what you want.
Now we are delving into the mystery and voodoo of building an acoustic box with tone wood.Most likely, my ears wouldn't notice a difference in all but the most perfect of conditions.I hope to hear an opinion from some experienced cabinet builders on this.
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Shobud Pro1,BMI U12, Santa Cruz F, PRS Standard, Fender Twin Reverb, ‘53 000-28 |
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Rick Contino
From:
Brattleboro, Vermont
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Posted 2 Mar 2014 6:22 pm
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Hmmmm. I'm no expert, but I can't help but chime in here.
Think about a speaker and what it does. It produces vibrations that generally shoot forward toward the audience. At low volumes, I could imagine the wood in the cabinet giving off some subtle sympathetic vibes, but once you get a speaker cranking I can't believe it would make any difference.
Acoustic guitars rely on the wooden body to project sound...a speaker cabinet relies on the wood to keep the speaker in position while it does all the work.
I don't think a hardwood would contribute much more than a certain look and an extra bunch of pounds to your amp.
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Shobud "The Professional" D-10, Stage One S-10, National "New Yorker," NV400
Last edited by Rick Contino on 2 Mar 2014 6:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2014 6:28 pm
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I'm with Rick. The type of wood is going to make very little difference, other than weight. But, if you think there is a difference, then there is a difference.
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You can observe a lot just by looking |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2014 6:35 pm
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| Rick Contino wrote: |
Hmmmm. I'm no expert, but I can't help but chime in here.
Think about a speaker and what it does. It produces vibrations that generally shoot forward toward the audience. At low volumes, I could imagine the wood in the cabinet giving off some subtle sympathetic vibes, but once you get a speaker cranking I can't believe it would make any difference.
Acoustic guitars rely on the wooden body to project sound...a speaker cabinet relies on the wood to keep it in position while it does all the work.
I don't think a hardwood would contribute much more than a certain look and an extra bunch of pounds to your amp. |
the wood used and the construction play a critical role in the sound. here is a blurb just on the tweed bassman. the pine cab and the floating baffle contribute a lOT to the sound of the amp.
The cabinets in 1950s tweed and 1960s blackface Fender amps were made from glued, finger-jointed solid-wood boards, usually of yellow pine, red cedar, or a similar sturdy softwood. This element contributes a warm, round, slightly soft resonance to the sound of the speaker itself. It’s a factor that can be somewhat unpredictable, too, but when it comes off right, it becomes a big part of an amp’s voice. The ’50s Fenders in particular had thin, “floating†plywood baffles mounted in these cabs—which is to say the baffles were bolted in at their four corners only (with extra bolts center top and center bottom in the big amps), rather than firmly all across all four sides. When such an amp is cranked up, this floating baffle vibrates considerably, and it contributes its own resonance to the sonic brew. |
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Rick Contino
From:
Brattleboro, Vermont
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Posted 2 Mar 2014 6:40 pm
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The baffle I can see making a difference, but when the speaker gets cranking you really think the material of the sidewalls makes a noticeable difference?
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Shobud "The Professional" D-10, Stage One S-10, National "New Yorker," NV400 |
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Bill L. Wilson
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2014 8:07 pm Speaker Cabinets.
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| Plywood and solid pine is all I've ever used to build speaker cabs, because I cover'em up with Tolex. Some of these exotic hardwoods will look beautiful until you throw'em in a truck, after a couple'o gigs. As far as sound goes, I can't tell any difference in solid or ply, except JBL's and EVM-12L's, do sound a lot different, in what ever cab. they're in. I have a walnut Strat, and it's heavier than my ash Tele. So I'm thinkin' walnut cabs. would be a ton heavier than pine or ply, but they would shore B Purdy. |
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Mike Bagwell
From:
Greenville, SC, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2014 8:13 pm
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Here's a couple of Sho Buds in maple.
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2014 8:27 pm
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| Rick Contino wrote: |
| The baffle I can see making a difference, but when the speaker gets cranking you really think the material of the sidewalls makes a noticeable difference? |
yes. and the baffle in the tweed bassman is only 1/4" or 5/16ths. it adds to the low end and any vol. |
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Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2014 4:34 am
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In the strictest sense everything makes some difference. I have guitar picker friends who swear they can hear a difference in their guitars depending on the fret board material. I can't hear a difference whether it's rosewood, maple, or ebony. But if someone can hear a difference then there is a difference. Just not for me.
I'm not sure if being able to hear things that subtle is a blessing or a curse. One has to decide that for themselves.
As it is I am just fine with my tin ear.
A side note, I would be willing to bet that no one listening in the audience notices a difference
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You can observe a lot just by looking |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 3 Mar 2014 7:57 am
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Yes it will affect the tone in some way, but it's very hard to know exactly how without comparing to an identical cabinet made of pine and tolexed. Walnut is gorgeous, but it is heavy and accident prone - you are going to want to keep that amp covered and in a case
Pine and birch ply seem to sound the same. I am not able to tell the difference there, except in weight. I'm also experimenting with a new product called boo-ply which is made from bamboo. It's also a bit heavy, but it looks really cool finished with a light oil.
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Milkmansound.com |
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J R Rose
From:
Keota, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2014 11:38 am
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The only wood I have ever seen in the 60's year model Fender's was white pine. #3 cabinet material from your local lumber yard. I have never seen redwood, cedar or yellow pine in those year models.
But, I have not seen them all for sure, JR. |
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Willie Sims
From:
PADUCAH, KY, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2014 12:40 pm
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| To you fellows who seem to think that what a cabinet is made of doesn't have any effect on the tone with the amplifier. I posted a subject a bout a device that musicians friend used to sell. It was made with a board covered, and three or four INCH piece of foam rubber beneath it, you sit the amplifier on it and it will change. The tone of the amplifier, works about the same way as tilted your amp back. I think it is meant to isolate the vibration of the cabinet from the floor. I made one and tried it with my amplifier and it does make a difference, it's just my opinion though. |
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Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2014 1:43 pm
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I do not contend that there is no difference, just very little.
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You can observe a lot just by looking |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 3 Mar 2014 2:14 pm
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Bill, I think I agree with you - there is definitely a difference, but how can it be measured?
Hi fi speakers sometimes sit on little casters made of ebony because its a "tone wood" and sounds best coupling the speaker to the floor.
If you take your amp off of the floor, the low end goes away. If you stick it in a corner, you get a lot more low end. Wood makes a difference, but environment does more!
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Milkmansound.com |
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Joe Naylor
From:
Avondale, Arizona, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2014 3:00 pm I agree with Tim
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I am sure it will make a difference but who is going to know?
They you set it on a amp stand (made of steel or wood), folding chair, padded chair, milk case (plastic) -
I have heard arguments but wonder if anyone can really tell. Walnut would have to have casters for sure.
Joe Naylor
www.steelseat.com
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Joe Naylor, Avondale, AZ (Phoenix) Announcer/Emcee owner www.steelseat.com *** OFFERING SEATS AND Effects cases with or without legs and other stuff ****** -Desert Rose Guitar S-10, Life Member of the Arizona Carport Pickers Assoc., Southwest Steel Guitar Assoc., Texas Steel Guitar Assoc., GA Steel Guitar Assoc., KS Steel Guitar Assoc. (Asleep at the Steel) tag line willed to me by a close late friend RIP |
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Steve Collins
From:
Alaska, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2014 3:06 pm
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One of those situations where everyone agrees that different woods might sound 'different' but nobody can agree which sounds 'better'.
As mentioned above, environment makes a much larger difference than cab construction, and baffle thickness/mounting probably makes a larger difference than cab material. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2014 5:09 pm
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Doubt that Leo Fender had any motivation besides price that determined the types of woods his cabinets were constructed from. Leo was an electronics man, not a woodworker. He was constantly tweaking his circuitry for perceived sonic improvements, but not experimenting with the lumber.
He did eventually settle on closed cabinets for his piggyback models and developed his infamous tone ring specifically for those models. He later pretty much abandoned that idea in favor of the overkill of twin speakers instead of a single speaker mounted to the ring. Those old Showman cabs with the D-130F mounted to the tone ring are some fine sounding cabinets indeed, but the wood had very little to do with it.
Leo undoubtedly purchased whatever he could get the best price on. Clear pine was probably preferred because of price considerations, and the fact that it was easier on his machinery than more resinous, figured, or dense hardwoods. Unless he got a really smokin' hot deal on a carload or two, it would seem doubtful he constructed cabinets from redwood on a regular basis.
Leo was a businessman who ran an assembly line. The more money he made, the larger the yacht he could purchase. He had no idea he was creating masterpieces for future generations to dissect into oblivion.
Last edited by Jack Hanson on 5 Mar 2014 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jerry Jones
From:
Franklin, Tenn.
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Posted 3 Mar 2014 6:47 pm
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Funny how "seat of the pants" assembly line decisions become brilliant engineering feats years later. 
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Jerry Jones |
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mike nolan
From:
Forest Hills, NY USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2014 7:56 pm
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| I'm sure that real wood makes a difference.... of some kind. Who knows until you try it. Ive heard some really bad MDF speaker cabinets and a few from really cheap plywood that weren't great. I kinda' don't get the furniture grade hardwood guitar amps à la PRS, etc. You know that if you gig it, it will get banged up, no matter how careful you are. |
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Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2014 3:59 am
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Mike I am one of the guys who likes pretty cabinets. I've built some nice ones from some fancy hardwood.
Probably the best analogy I can give for wanting a beautiful hardwood cabinet is the cars we drive. We don't really need the beautiful Cadillac or Corvette, but they sure are pretty. An old Corolla will get you there, but looks count too.
You are right, they can get banged up, but I have a day job and only pick for fun.
On the other hand I have a pretty blue quilted maple guitar that almost never leaves the house. I take the Formica covered MSA cause it's tough and hard to beat up. Go figure.
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You can observe a lot just by looking |
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Craig Schwartz
From:
McHenry IL
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Posted 4 Mar 2014 5:55 am redwood
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| Willie Sims wrote: |
I think that they attributed the tone quality of the Fender amps, because they were built with Redwood. I'm even thinking about building me some Redwood Cabinets for my amps.
Willie SIMS |
Willie, Redwood being quite a bit liter is a plus factor for sure and gorgeous when linseed oil is applied, Cost effective (very expensive) or damn near free if you know a garage door company that replaces the old doors made of redwood, (I`m a garage door guy by trade) I`ve been stripping out redwood doors for a couple of years now and building bird houses with them, Didnt realize the old amps were redwood, The garage door panels themselves are redwood and the styles and rails are made of Douglas Fur or ponderosa pine, You could take these 3/4"x 12 x 15" panels and finger joint them together to create 3000 year old planks, The grain is very tiny which gives it great strength, But be cautious, it can split and splinter and its highly toxic if you get a sliver in the hand . 20 years ago the beveled redwood panels cost $45.00 each for a 12"x15" Its crazy now. Call your door man today and put your order in for an old torn out redwood door and disect it.
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SO MANY LURES, SO LITTLE TIME.... |
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