Some Fender Twin questions

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I got a PM asking me for suggestions and info on Fender Twins, as how to choose which Twin for a steel amp.

I gave him my own opinion, but I kinda lack knowledge for forming fully formed ones. I said "Given that guitar players like breakup, and steel players DON'T, I'd get the ones that the market discounts. They're more likely to stay clean longer. You may want to tweak the tone stack to make it more steel-friendly, but Panther Hall was cut on a bone-stock 66 Twin. If you want better tone than that, it's on you."

I decided to ask y'all for your opinions/assessments of the various Twins, since I was asked for assessments of "Blackface, Silverface, Ultralinear, Reissues, et c."

My personal experience with Twins is limited to a borrowed silverface in 1981 (which I liked, but the owner came back from Germany. I was hoping he'd fall in love with a Fraulein and stay) and my 65 RI. I suspected the Ultra-linear might make a good match for steel as guitar pickers called it "too clean".

I know I could probably find a guit-centric comparison, but I thought I'd find a steel-oriented comparison set in the brains herein assembled.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Tim Marcus · From: San Francisco, CA

Here are some quick thoughts:

A vintage twin is usually a great sounding amp, unless you have one that needs a lot of service. Any piece of equipment that old will need repair, and not everyone lives near a technician who can do repairs properly. That makes it hard to recommend. Sure, countless classic recordings were made with them but when? Remember that an E Class Jag won a lot of races but it can't these days.

A brand new Reissue twin has a very nasal sounding voicing that is not conducive for pedal steel at all. I find it hard to tame the highs. You can mod the crap out of it - put a new speaker it - and it'll be better but its hardly an investment worth making. When I need a back line amp, I will request a deluxe reissue. They seem to sound better than the Twin and you can always use two!

Ultralinear twins sound pretty good, but they are heavy! Very very heavy and really loud. They need to be way too loud before the tone comes.

Hand wired off brand Twin Clones - thats a crap shoot. Some of the kits (Marsh, Mojotone, Weber) sound pretty good but it depends on how they are built. Not everyone does a good job building an amp - its not as simple as paint by numbers. You might get one that oscillates, has grounding issues, or is more problematic than a vintage twin if you are not careful.

Boutique amps such as my 85W Milkman have the tone and weight you want, but the price is not right for every player.

Where is the middle ground? I think its got to be taken case by case
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Milkmansound.com

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Thanks, Tim. One of these days I'm gonna open up that green RI and write down the various values of components. I don't know WHAT was done, but it has better tone than any amp I've ever owned (and needs less effects), but I don't anything more than what the seller told me ("the tone stack was tweaked to be steel-friendly')
I know there were different circuits in the various Twins, but I don't know what effects the changes had, or what made the different submodels "better" or "worse."

The gentleman in question presumably knows the downsides of "experienced" tube amps, and his main amp at the moment is one of the Peavey city 400s (but not Nashville).
Having watched this forum and talked to our local tube guy, I wouldn't mess with a kit built by someone else (unless I got to try it AT VOLUME) and I definitely don't think I'd wanna build one of my own.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Here's my take:

B/F Twins are okay until seriously pushed. Sure, Lloyd's PH sound was great, but he's not an aggresive player, and he don't do C6. Winking

S/F Twins are better for loud and C6, and the ultra-linears are even better!

Evil Twins (the "rednobs") work almost as well as the S/F, but getting the mids right is a little harder. The couple I've played through sounded more like a Peavey with no mid-shift.

My own "numer-uno" choice is the Super Twin...the only open-back Fender combo amp that gives fantastic bass response...even at low volumes, and there's power enough to split your skull. Cool

('Course, it weighs almost a hunert pounds, so it's not for ol' fokes. Surprised

)

I haven't spent any time on the RI's, so I won't comment on them.

Don Griffiths · From: Steelville, MO

So I've been told that any twins made before the early eighties were still point to point hand wired and can be made to sound good. I have an Ultralinear 135 Watt from the late 70's that I have never been able to play up loud enough to get any good distorted tube growl out of with a guitar, but it shimmers with the steel and I don't think there is anything better for playing clean. All of the twin reincarnations after the eighties (though I'm not sure about the Rivera Era in the early 80's)were made with PCB (printed circuit boards) and just don't quite measure up in the tone department, although passable to many ears, though I played a Deluxe Reverb Reissue in a music store that sounded great at lower volumes. I suspect ,but could be wrong,that the PCBs don't age as well as P2P wired either. I just love the silver face sound and there are still some reasonably priced ones out there. As far as the price of anything Pre-CBS , I personally think I would rather buy a new Fox or Milkman at a comparable price though if you ever see a deal on one snag it!
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Shobud Pro1,BMI U12, Santa Cruz F, PRS Standard, Fender Twin Reverb, ‘53 000-28

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Donny, my Super Twin lacks reverb. It is also a head. It sounds pretty good using a BW in an LTD. I'm currently waiting for a Tommy Huff cab (ported, closed back) to pop my EPS15 into.
And thanks for your comparison. THAT'S what I was aiming for.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Tim Marcus · From: San Francisco, CA

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Don, a Milkman is my second big purchase. First comes my next new steel. at $100/week, the new steel is a ways off, and a milkman 85 is 8 months behind that (and I'm pretty serious, Mr. Marcus). But I was asked about Twins.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Bill L. Wilson · From: Oklahoma, USA

My '76 Silverface, Master Vol. Twin w/JBL's in a split cab. is a reliable old amp that was never used much, till I got a hold of it 2yrs ago. It had the original Fender marked 6L6's which I replaced w/5881's. My Emmons sounds clean thru the Reverb Chan. and to dirty up the guitar in the Normal Chan. I use a Keeley Red Dirt Overdrive. When I can only have one amp, IT's the TWIN.

David Cubbedge · From: Toledo,Ohio, USA

This summer I had my '72 Twin re-done by a local tube amp guru and I can tell you it sounds great! If anyone needs the guru and live near Toledo, Ohio, I can hook you up with him. Extremely reasonable price and I can tell you this guy knows his tube amps!! PM me if you are interested....
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Red Emmons D10 fatback #2246D with sweet Hugh Briley split cases, Black Emmons S10 #1466S, '73 Fender "Snakeskin" Twin Reverb, Peavey Nashville 400, Line 6 Pod XT, Fender 400, Fender Stringmaster Double-8, too many guitars, one bass!

Howard Montgomery · From: Topeka, KS US

Lane, I wonder if the magic of the green RI is the speaker vs any changes to the amp. Have you tried any other cabinets/speakers to see if it still sounds as good. I would love to know what changes the amp has had.

Bob Simons · From: Kansas City, Mo, USA

Hey Lane. I just picked up a 65 twin reissue with Eminence speakers. It seems to pare great with my Zum with a single coil Wallace Tru-tone. Actually sounded more interesting than it did with my MSA M3 with a Telonics p/u. I was quite surprised at what a nice and useful sound I was getting with just a bit of onboard reverb. Simplifies my life a bit!

Stop by when your in the neighborhood and A/B Twin RI, Webb, Steel King, Mesa Boogie T-Verb, Peavey 112, and a couple of others I keep hooked up.

By the way Lane- you often comment about David Wright's widely split left leg levers and double vertical. I've got his old guitar if you want to experience it. My vote is on a U12 to use Newman lever or additional LKL. Wright set up is pretty "athletically" demanding...
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Zumsteel U12 8-5, MSA M3 U12 9-7, MSA SS 10-string, 1930 National Resonophonic, Telonics Combo, Webb 614e, Fender Steel King, Mesa Boogie T-Verb.

Adam Sorber · From: Pennsylvania, USA

I have been using a Fender super twin reverb with Ruby Tubes and peavey 1201 speakers for about 2 months now. It sounds fantastic. It does way a ton though. I also have an ultralinear twin reverb that sounds great too.
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Adam Sorber
Sho Bud PROII custom D-10
Sho Bud PROII custom SD-10
Fender Super Twin Reverb
Fender Ultra-linear Twin Reverb

Marty Holmes · From: Magnolia ,TX USA

SPEAKERS,TONE CAPS,TUBES AND BIAS POINT,PICKUP,AMP SETTINGS,EFFECTS are all major factors in your tone and how much headroom you get.i have a fender 69tr,a ritr custom 15,a 95 blackface vibrasonic, and a mm hd 150 with a k130.All sound amazing for steel guitar.Dont let the reissue fool you its a tone baby regardless of the bad rumors its been given if you dont believe me go to reverbnation and pull up rustic moon and listen to my little Fessenden guitar through the ri I used the amps reverb prob the best tone I ever got in the studio.The proof is in the puddin folks!

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I ordered a new Twin Reverb in approx. 1967. I still have it. I was advised to order it with the JBL speakers. It made the amp quite heavy but it has great sound. It is an early silver face without the master volume. I have no plans of selling it.
BTW: I put castors on the bottom and lift handles on the sides. Whoa!

Daniel Policarpo · Posted 31 Jan 2014 2:09 am

Erv, that would just about be my Holy Grail amplifier right there! I had a '73 SilverFace Twin that also would have been great for steel: it had a lot of warmth and you could crank it with a Tele and the highs would not get ice-picky. I found the key to Master Volume SF Fenders is to just turn the Master up to 10 and forget about it and work things from the Channel volume.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

right up may alley.. I've been a Twin user since the 70's, bought a new one in 1970, used it right up to the early 90's..then like a total moron , sold it.

Two years ago I ran across a bone stock 71 at a guitar show, it was sitting in some guys booth filthy as all get go but you gotta look beyond the dirt. It was literally a mint stock 71 in excellent condition with recent new PS caps.

Ok, tone and sound, my 70, I rebuilt the baffle and installed a 15" JBL, huge tonal difference compared to the stock Oxford or Utahs which are very middy. I used that amp NON stop for Steel and Telecaster for over 20 years. The tone was easy to dial in for my Sho Bud Pro III and the breakup for Steel was noticeable at volume knob 5 or 6 which is pretty darn loud, but for a big room was necessary. Typical gig volume knob was 4 ish. But keep in mind that the tone stacks need to be pretty stout as well, if you are running Fender amps with low tone stack numbers the amp is short on volume and tone as well.

The 71, it had two stock Utahs , totally useless for my taste , way to middy. I pulled them and replaced them with the Fender Gold Label Emmi's which I believe are the same speakers in many of the RI's. A better choice( more expensive as well) would be a pair of C12N Jensens, much warmer and cover the brights well too. The Emmi's with the 71 Twin can tend to be on the bright side so boosting the bottom and and watching the mids is important.

POINT:
Speaker selection for Fender Twins with Steel is very important or you may chase tone and harshness. I use the Emmi's because I happen to have a bunch of them sittin' around, they are a good middle of the road compromise.

The 71 breakup is right at the same point as the 70,noticeable at 5 or 6 on the knob. Basically the 70 and the 71 are the same amp, circuit AC568 I believe. 71 is the last year prior to Master volume.

I have used a TWIN RI and it is fine, very similar to the 71, bright and edgy if you are not paying attention to the tone stack.

Twins ( all of them ) are historically clean thru most of the bandstand volume levels. If they are not they need work such as tubes, proper bias, power supply caps , speakers etc..
.

Regarding guitars though, my experience is that for some dirt, edge or color, grab a couple of GOOD pedals, not the $39 cheapo's. My pedal rack has the Twin settings never changing but I use an AB Morley pedal and a couple of stomp pedals and set the guitar volume and tone from them. Basically the amp is set for the Steel( no pedals) and the pedal rack sets the telecaster stuff. My primary boost pedal is a Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive.

Twins may not be the perfect amp for Steel or double duty but they are pretty darn good ! A good set of tubes, a power supply that's fresh and you are good to go for years...

here's the 71..

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Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Daniel,
Yes, that amp has served me well over the years.
A guitar slinger stopped over the other evening and we made noise for over 3 hours and the Twin performed exceedingly well! Very Happy

Lefty · From: Grayson, Ga.

I thought Panther Hall was cut with a rented 1968 Twin with factory installed JBL D120F speakers.
I read this, but was not there.
Lefty

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

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