Building a "dictionary" of licks

Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

I've been learning PSG as a hobby for almost two years now. I've started to do jam sessions with a guitar player friend and also just purchased BIAB. Now is a good time for me to work on a bunch of licks.

I look at this forum a lot and see people talk about licks like they keep a rolodex of them. I'm instinctively resistant to that idea. I'd rather spend time playing different styles of steel, develop my ear, expand my knowledge of music theory, and let the rest work itself out. Seems like a lot of the licks involving A+B and E are intuitive anyways.

I think the reason that I'm resistant to the idea is that I've heard too much music with steel guitar in it from 80s and early 90s era where I feel all the same licks were placed in the song without due consideration for what they're supposed to add. Also, licks have different feels depending on which key you're in and what the tempo of the song is. I don't want my playing to become overly technical and robotic.

I also want to see if I can develop my own style that's worth anything. I don't expect it to be, but I'd like to find out for myself. I already know that one thing I like to do is be tactful about which strings I mute and which I let ring, along with how hard I strike them. This lets me not only bend chords, but build and blend them as well.

If I were in a hurry to get on stage and gig with a band, then I'd probably have to hurry up and learn licks. But I'm in no hurry. In fact, that's part of the reason I chose psg; because it'll keep me busy and interested for years.

Am I misguided and headstrong or is there something to my intuition?

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

I'm from the same school as you: would rather have my dictionary develop from the music that needs to be played...eg. part composition...and the 'licks' that may develop from that are personal ones...however...its a long slow road to mastery with that approach.

I think ultimately, a little of this, and a little of that, with a focus on part composition to keep music, not licks at the forefront.

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

IMHO........I'd say you have the right idea.

Shortly after Jeff Newman presented his SPEED PICKING Seminar......everywhere you went, one could hear the steel player hammering away on the same Newman teachings.

Develop your own techniques....... That's what the top pro's have done. We lesser beings are trying in vain to be carbon copies of those earlier discoveries.

Good Luck to you! Don't let your thinking be swayed.

Joachim Kettner · From: Germany

Ulrich Sinn · From: California, USA

I take the bait. Smile

The important distinction to make is between clichÃ© and playing according to the idiom.

I'd venture to guess this is what makes Mozart the stand out artist: he could have written music with his musical dice game (and he may well have in a pinch), but he definitely exceeded expectations in interpreting the musical language of his day.

Coming from the dobro it is practically impossible to overlook Jerry Douglas and the bluegrass guys from the 70s. There is no way to ignore the rapid fire hammer-ons and pull offs. Playing double stops and slants will result in a what is now probably a historic style.

It is to early to say whether e.g The Punch Brothers will have a similar impact as e.g. David Grisman, Tony Rice etc. will have (I personally think they will not, not enough momentum nowadays to create a movement).

Licks are good if you can make them your own. There is a reason to study the masters.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I found it easier to develop a style AFTER I learned to play. Ulrich mentioned Jerry Douglas. Listen to his output PRIOR to Fluxology. He started out as a licks-based Auldridge clone, then became a cat who THOUGHT like Mike (once I was riding with Mike and WAMU played a CG piece with Jerry. He listened to the ride, turned to me and said with a puzzled look "Huh. I don't recall that session."). Fluxology came out, and BOOM! Jerry was his own man.
My progression was: learn solos and intros, fills and tags; learn licks; slice step 1 into licks, and play biiys of the melody (and quote other songs' melodies); synthesize all of the above into ME. And to this day, although I sound like nobody else, you can hear (if you listen for them) bits of Mike, Bruce Bouton, John David Call, Bobby Black and at least 3 guys named Buddy (Cage, Charleton and Emmons), with bits of Albert Lee, Mooney Pete Anderson and Jimmy McGriff.
One other word on the "Rolodex" of licks (I like that metaphor): if you play out, there's two occasions that you'll be glad to have them. When you run out of ideas 9 bars into a 16 bar ride (it even happens to the big names), or when you're playing an unfamiliar tune, and you get the nod before you even a solid grip on the chord progression (you can decline in a jam session, but onstage? Nope. It's your turn, bunky).
Flip through the Rolodex and try to make the next lick flow smoothly from the current one.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

One other thought.
If you dig the music-as-language metaphor, we only have a few letters, and you can think of licks as words. If you're gonna use your OWN words, fine. Just make sure they make sure that the rest of us can understand what you're saying.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Dave Campbell · From: Nova Scotia, Canada

i feel that it depends on what you want to do with the instrument. country music is highly idiomatic, so you need to learn style appropriate licks. that's what makes country music hard to play. you need to be creative, but respect the traditions and idioms of the form.

understanding the instrument is important, and challenging yourself to invent your own phrases, to play your own passages by ear and to really "hear" the fretboard is vital. by the same token, why ignore the inventions of some really genius musicians, and why not gauge your skill level against theirs by learning some of their inventions. seeing and learning how they view the fretboard, and how they approach the guitar can only broaden your won perspective.

like tom said..."a little of this, a little of that".

Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Curt, in any genre, the best way of delighting the audience and fellow musicians is learning what the form expects, and delivering it with a twist. That little something that makes your ears prick up and say "huh!?!"
I can't help but think that knowing a whole mess of building blocks, and putting a couple in sideways will prove easier and more rewarding than making yer own blocks. Jerry Byrd built on Ellsworth Cozzens and the other cats from the 30s, and so on.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

Due to the limited breadth of country music, a lot licks to me already sound like variations of each other.

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

General principle - if you want an audience to listen to something new, first soften them up with something familiar. Originality has to be relative to something. Lane is right about music as language. Use mostly words they understand and they can guess the others. Be a friendly uncle with a couple of tricks, not an alien.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

I won't argue with the fact that sooner or later you gotta know many many licks. What's driving this attitude for me is the concern that if I dedicate myself right now to specifically learning licks, that it'll stunt my education of music theory and that it'll dull my musical imagination.

I'll never be excellent at PSG unless I become a hermit and devote my life to it. I started learning when I was 27 already as my first real instrument. So I want to get as much out of he learning experience as possible. I'll never be a beginner with the PSG again, so I don't curb the experience by occupying so much of my time and energy with licks.

Dave Hopping · From: Aurora, Colorado

I DO like the idea of replicating solos,turnarounds,and little licks.Although it's true the immediate benefit is onstage when the bandleader smiles(and other bandleaders get your number),the long-term benefit I found was that learning that material gave me ideas I wouldn't have had otherwise.

Free knowledge.Bring your own container. Winking

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

ian..depends on your audience.

curt..good luck living in that cave, developing your own style.

Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

I've spent over an hour in the past week copying the licks over different chord progressions in BIAB and then reworking them slightly so they flow into each other better. Is that along the lines of what you guys are talking about?

Like I said, I'll probably never be really good at PSG and in the immediate future, I'll only be playing with my friends and for my friends instead of doing gigs. I really enjoy the learning experience and that's what I don't want to diminish for myself. Didn't you guys enjoy just learning the instrument for yourself?

Stephen Gambrell · From: Over there

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I suggest you do whatever passionately moves you. If you wanna just play songs for a period, just focus on playing songs for a while. Songs have licks, and if you play a bunch of songs over and over, you'll know some licks.

You may find after a while that your own made-up licks just don't have the zing of some other licks you've heard great players play. So if you have a period where you feel like it's productive to learn some specific licks and transfer them to your songs, then learn some licks and transfer them to your songs, which I presume you're still learning new ones, right?

You may find as you move through the process that just playing stock licks doesn't help you figure out how to create meaningful melodies and licks, or mix them up in different musical contexts. So if you want to spend some time thinking about chords, scales, and/or arpeggios and how your songs and licks relate to them, then by all means, go for it.

None of these things are mutually exclusive, none of them will 'rob you of your soul' or 'dull your musical imagination' if you try to do them in context, and they're all useful and important. Don't sweat it so much, Frank Zappa was right (you know the quote, right?)

My take.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Curt Trisko · From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic