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Topic: .021 plain for 6th string G# E9 tuning |
Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 15 Sep 2014 5:13 pm |
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Hi folks. Has anyone tried or use a .021 plain for G# on their guitar?
Curious how it compares to the .020 and .022 plain regarding the tone. I will most likely try it but welcome any comments and feedback.
My reason for wanting to try it is that I like the bigger sound of a .022 but since I play a ZB, it makes the pulls for the B pedal even trickier to balance than it already is with the .020. I don't want to use a wound 6th string because I prefer the shorter pedal throw with a plain (that would solve the balancing issue).
Thanks
Dave
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 16 Sep 2014 1:50 pm
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I don't have the answer and I don't want to hijack your thread, but I have a related question.
On my old D10 on the E9 neck I have a .022W on the G#. It came that way, it sounds right, and as it doesn't lower to F#, length of pull is no problem. On the B6 neck (which is how I tune the rear) the G# is a 0.020P (it came that way, etc.). So, on the Uni 12 I'm building I need to make my mind up. I would be interested to know what others think, and in a few weeks I might even be able to answer Dave's query 
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 16 Sep 2014 2:29 pm
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Dave. I have at times used a .021. I know because I have some in my spare string pile. I don't remember much of a difference. I do use, and prefer a .022p. I find it cuts through the mix better. The .021 is probably not much different. The .022p works great for me because I use a .018 on string 5. I like the heavier guage strings.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 16 Sep 2014 3:53 pm
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not much different than the .020 or the .022?
_________________
Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 16 Sep 2014 8:14 pm
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Sounded a little heavier than the .020, but not much. A .020 sounds real whimpy to me, kind of like a .010 on the third string. I really can't remember there being a lot of difference between the .021 and the .022. I had ordered a set of strings that had the .021 when I had my Kline. Worked great. I used the .021 a lot back then. I didn't like the whimpy sound of the .020. The .022, I would also use if the set of strings included it. You might want to just bite the bullet and try it. I can't see it making a whole lot of difference on a ZB because of the yoke type system it uses. But, even though that allows for the strings to start pulling at the same time, it might affect the two strings reaching the A note at exactly the same time. If you are adjusting the turnbuckles to balance the pulls, good luck. Those things used to drive me nuts. Much easier to do on the Kline. I much preferred the Kline system.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 17 Sep 2014 12:47 am
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Richard, how does the Kline system work?
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Karlis Abolins
From:
(near) Seattle, WA, USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2014 5:49 am
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Dave, I don't know how the three gauges (.020, .021, .022) sound relative to the other strings but here is the tension in pounds of each string open and pulled to A with the B pedal:
.020 22.8 - 25.6
.021 25.1 - 28.2
.022 27.6 - 31.0
This calculated for a 24 inch scale.
Karlis |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2014 8:54 am
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Thanks for your input guys!
_________________
Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 17 Sep 2014 10:16 am
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| Richard, how does the Kline system work? |
Very similar to a ZB. In the pictures you will see the cross shaft. I has a piece (no idea what it is called) that another almost triangular piece attaches to. That piece doesn't actually attach to it. It just sits in a notched out section so it can pivot when the pedal is pressed. The rods are attached to the "triangular" piece (it's not really a triangle, but a Triangle with the tips cut off) through a piece that fits in the holes in that piece.
When a pedal is pressed. the piece that the rods hooks to, the piece pivots to the point where both strings start to pull at the same time. The adjustment for the rod is made at the insert in the triangle where the rod is held with a set screw. You can lengthen or shorten the rod by loosening the set screw and moving the rods forward or back and re-tightening the set screw. On a ZB, this is accomplished with a hex turnbuckle. The rod coming from the cross shaft end screw into one end of this turnbuckle, and the part that goes to the changer screws into the other end. A real pain in the butt to adjust. Her are some pics of a Kline undercarriage.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 17 Sep 2014 1:40 pm
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Thanks for that - yes, I can see how it's much more elegant than any turnbuckle arrangement.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 17 Sep 2014 2:41 pm
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There's just something magic about the mojo in a ZB or Kline. I've had both, and they are to die for.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2014 4:05 pm
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I find the Kline mechanically superior but the ZB has superior tone.....in my humble opinion of course! 
Now I'm hijacking my own thread! 
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 17 Sep 2014 5:40 pm
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Just say that the tone is shaped by the gauge of the 6th string. That way you stay on subject. 
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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