E7 tuning on a Stage One?

Tom Barrett · From: Maryland, USA

I recently picked up a Zum Stage One as my first pedal steel. I'm already thinking of trying it in E7 or G. Those tunings are more in line with what I'm used to from playing slide for several years. I've found one E7 tuning for 10 string (thanks b0b!) but I'm not sure the copedants would work as the Stage One 's are fixed.
I'm also wondering about gauges and where to order the strings from.
Thanks for any guidance.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Scott Duckworth · From: Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies

The E7 tuning is used a lot by the Sacred Steel players...

B0b has a nice page about it at http://b0b.com/tunings/sacredsteel.html.
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Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Scott, What you say is true. But since the Stage One's copedant is fixed, it can't accommodate the E7 (or any other) tuning.

Some of us go through a phase where we was experiment with different setups and often try different changes, or change things around etc. I'm glad that I had a guitar that allowed me to do that.

I know that the Stage One is a fine instrument, perhaps the best student guitar on the market. But I believe that even a student needs a guitar whose copedant can be changed.
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Stuart Legg · Posted 10 Jan 2014 11:47 am

Mike bless your heart I know you mean well but I thought the whole idea was that the majority of people who play PSG play E9 so the student models are all set up E9.
I think it is important for the student to have a copedant that can't be changed.
So he won't even think about wasting time tinkering with the mech trying to reinvent the wheel.
Then the student can get right on taking advantage of all the vast amount of learning material and input from all those PSG players with years of experience.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Stuart, you are right when you say a beginner needs to learn the basics before (s)he starts changing things around,

But the O.P wants to play an E7, or G tuning, and the Stage One won't let him do that. For him, the fixed copedant is a problem.

But beyond that, everybody says that the Stage One is a great sounding guitar, which means that people who are not beginners will want to use them on gigs and even recording sessions. Those folks may want to customize their aetups.

It has been said that just because something can be done, doesn't mean it should be. Beginners shouldn't be tinkering with the undercarriage. But as they progress, they may want to. And in my opinion, they should have guitars that will enable them to do so.
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Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

My suggestion: Learn it as it is.
The mental approach to wringing music out of these things is so entirely different from other axes that trying a hybridized setup will actually hinder establishment of the mental patterns necessary to operating these suckers.

EDIT: (paraphrased to nuke the three dollar words)
This ain't a guitar, a keyboard or even a Dobro. To rearrange it to have a similarity with whatever you already know will shortchange you. And once these things make some sense to you, you'll kick yourself for making it take longer.
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chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

i wouldn't buy or recommend a steel with a fixed setup. experimenting the first couple years gave me a better knowledge of pedal steel guitar.

that's probably why i am now such an unknown yet creative mediocre player.

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

What Lane said.
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Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

I am the poster boy for messing and tinkering, trust me, leave it alone. You will learn it as it is, and you will be better off spending your time playing the thing instead of trying to fix it. There is more music in E9 than you will ever get out of it.

A word to the wise should be sufficient!
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Tom Barrett · From: Maryland, USA

Thanks for the advice! I'm starting to get use to E9. Similar to open E except with a few extra strings. Highway 61 licks transfer over well. Trying to replace some of the "slide" licks with the pedals is helping me to learn my way around. It's not going to happen overnight (or even the next decade!).

Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

Probably not a good idea to start messing around with the Stage One copedent. It's designed to be fixed for a reason. If for some reason I wanted to make any changes on mine, which I won't, I'd consult with Doug Earnest in great detail first. I think he'd talk you out of it. You and the guitar will be better off leaving things be.
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Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

The Stage One has the option of tuning RKR to lower string 2 to D or C# (no half stop). If you want to emulate the E7th licks, make sure that you are tuning that lever to D. Even on a modern E9th with the half stop, most accomplished players use the D note more than the C#. It's the better choice if you have to choose one or the other.

The big difference between E7th and E9th tunings is the reduction of the bottom 4 strings to 3 and the addition of a low E string. This allows the Sacred Steel players to strum major, minor and 7th chords (Chuck calls it "autoharp mode"). There's no easy way to modify a Stage One to work like the Sacred Steel E7th without adding a pedal and manufacturing some clever additional parts.

I agree with the advice given by other members here: learn to play the E9th as designed on your Stage One. In the future if you find yourself yearning for rhythm chops and lower notes, what you've learned won't go to waste. You'll have a better understanding of the how and why of the various copedents, and you'll know exactly what you're gaining and losing by changing from one to the other.
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Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

What b0b said, verbatim. Exclamation

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Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I'll add my consent to Herb and b0b's. When I started, I, too, scrapped those "useless" chromatics and put on a tuning that I thought made more sense. Rolling Eyes

It was only after studying the pros that I learned what a powerful tuning the standard E9th really is! Look, practically everyone wants something made easier, and they also often have their own ideas on how to go about it. But easier is often not better, and IMHO the knowledge of those who led the way in developing the instrument is best used by starting with, and learning, the standard tunings and pedal setups. Very Happy

As the old saying goes..."A fool learns from his own mistakes, while a wise man learns from the mistakes of others".

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