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Topic: Tips for Beginner Learning Minor Keys? |
Michael Murray
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 14 Dec 2013 8:33 am |
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The DVDs I have don't cover minor scales/keys. (I learn much quicker from seeing, rather than reading text descriptions - so I prefer videos.)
Does anybody know a video for minor scales?
Also, for playing in a major key, the Nashville Number system was real easy to understand as a beginner. I've memorized the different positions (bar,pedal,levers) for each number. Instruction that ties minor keys with NN may prove most useful for me. But I'll have to learn all new number-position combinations. (Maybe the way I'm using NN is a shortcut some may warn against - but it sure is working well now - especially when I play songs live that I don't really know).
Thanks, Michael
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Simmons 'Genesis', Katana amp, Goodrich pedal. |
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2013 9:02 am
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Jeff Newman did a video called Minor Chord Connection, or something to that effect. Check out Jeffran College: http://www.jeffran.com/
I like most of what I've used from there. He uses the NN descriptions as well as tab and showing hands and feet in split screen. Plus he could really play!
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RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 14 Dec 2013 9:20 am
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DON'T approach it by just flatting a third. The chromatic strings give you LOTS of melodic options in the A pedal position (C#m at the nut) and the D# lever position (G#m at the nut).
If you play "The Thrill is Gone" in Am (can't recall where B sang it), I'd play it at 13 with the D# lever, the iv (minor) at 13 with A pedal, and down to 12 (making sure to hit strings 9&6) for that E7.
I'll try to make another video explaining how I think in minor keys. If there's a particular song you have in mind, I'll try to tackle it if I know it.
If you lower your Bs, I kinda touched on a bit in one of my others.
Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn1IY1E-uKU
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
Last edited by Lane Gray on 14 Dec 2013 9:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ray Anderson
From:
Jenkins, Kentucky USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2013 9:20 am
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You are spot on Rick, that one turned the light on for me also.  |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 14 Dec 2013 11:42 am
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Learn the relative-minor/major relationships:
EG: G major = E minor, C major = A minor.
Take the standard G major scale and play the notes of that scale over an E minor chord - you'll hear how everything fits into place.
Learn those relationships - the relative minor's root is a step-and-a-half below its relative major's root.
As Lane said - DON't approach it by flatting the third; that's ignoring the basic theory involved.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Niels Andrews
From:
Salinas, California, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2013 12:00 pm
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To add to what Roger said the relative minor is simply the same notes as the Major Scale beginning on the 6th note of the Major scale. So if you know your Major Scales you also know your minors. I think that should be worth a donation to the forum!
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 14 Dec 2013 12:16 pm
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Well said, Niels.
Playing a G major scale over an Em chord will sound appropriate and effective - if you start that G major scale at the E note, you're actually playing an E minor scale. Easy! After that, edit or cut-and-paste according to your own good taste and you'll be improvising in E minor.
This is why I've never been a proponent of having a 3rd/6th string half-step 'lower' to create a minor chord. Sure, it works, but it fails to observe the underlying theory. Much better, in my view, to think laterally and make the most of the relative minor/major relationships.
Or, as I once heard Jimmie Crawford say when he was asked about adding that 3/6 lower:
"Why? How many ways of getting a minor chord do you want???" 
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2013 12:19 pm
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(Edit: Whoa, I see that everybody else beat me to the punch while writing my wordy explanation. Good job, guys.)
Michael, I can't recommend any DVD but can give you my method for minor scales and using the Nashville Number System for songs in a minor key.
Disclaimer: minor scales are slightly more complicated than the major scale because there are many different flavors (i.e., natural minor, melodic, harmonic, and the Dorian mode). I'll keep it basic and only discuss the natural minor.
Good news: if you can play a major scale, you can also play a minor scale in the same position (no need to learn a bunch of new positions just for minor). That's because living within every major scale is a minor scale -- it has a different name, of course, but shares all the same notes. For example, the C major scale shares all the same notes as the Am scale.
If you know this fact -- and know the easy way to do the conversion between major and minor -- to play a minor scale, you find the major scale that has your minor and just play out of that major position. For example, Am scale, you would just play out of the C major position (technically, to play Am scale, start on the A note instead of the C, but you're basically using the same strings and pedals/knees as if you were playing C major).
Here's the terminology: the Am scale is the "relative minor" of the C major.
You can move to any other major scale position and it will also have a relative minor living within it. How do you find the relative minor? It's root name is located at the 6th tone of that major scale. Or... if you want to think in terms of chords in the number system, the vi chord is the relative minor to the I chord.
Here's a memory trick on the E9 neck, using the key of C again. To figure out the relative minor of C, go to the no-pedals position of the C scale (or C chord, if you want to think of it that way, at the 8th fret)and then step on the A-pedal. If you can name that minor chord - Am in this case -- that's the "relative minor" of the fret you're in.
A real world example: if you're playing a song that needs the Em scale, lets say you don't know where to play that, but you know that every minor scale has a relative major... and you DO know how to play major scales. You would do the conversion described above in reverse. Start with the A-pedal version of the Em chord. Release the pedal, and whatever no-pedal fret you're in -- G in this case -- that's the "relative major" of Em. So you can play notes of the G major scale and it's also Em scale (again, this is the 'natural' minor scale... there are other minor scales). In fact, you can play the G scale anywhere else on the neck and you'll be hitting all the same notes as Em.
When faced with a song in a minor key, I convert to the relative major and chart it as if it were major. Example of a common chord progression:
Am Dm E7
If we view this as being written in the key of Am, I would mentally convert that to it's relative major, C. And then chart it in the number system as if it were in the key of C:
vi ii III7
Hope that helps! |
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Michael Murray
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 15 Dec 2013 9:37 am Thanks!
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This is awesome info. I should have known about the relative minor to major scale! This really makes playing minor key much easier than I anticipated. Thanks all!
_________________
Simmons 'Genesis', Katana amp, Goodrich pedal. |
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Josh Welch
From:
Veyo, Utah, USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2013 12:48 pm
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Tucker,
Wouldn't another way of doing the same thing when converting to the relative minor or major be to drop down from the root ( major ) chord a minor 3rd to get the relative minor chord, and if converting a minor chord to it's relative major just go up a minor 3rd from the minor chord? |
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Niels Andrews
From:
Salinas, California, USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2013 12:54 pm
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Well Josh,
If he knew what a minor 3rd was, he probably would not be asking the question. I encourage anyone learning to play to learn music theory. It taught me how much I didn't know
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo. |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 16 Dec 2013 12:05 pm
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| Josh Welch wrote: |
Tucker,
Wouldn't another way of doing the same thing when converting to the relative minor or major be to drop down from the root ( major ) chord a minor 3rd to get the relative minor chord, and if converting a minor chord to it's relative major just go up a minor 3rd from the minor chord? |
Yessir. Many ways to figure out the relative minor or major relationship.
Your method... that's what Roger was referring to above when he said you can find the relative minor a step-and-a-half below the root of the major. A step-and-a-half is a minor third interval. That's 3 frets. Using C and Am as an example, the C note and the A note are 3 frets apart, so that's an easy way to figure out at least the name of the root notes involved (although you would maybe play them in another position, i.e., I can't play an Am chord in the 5th fret with my copedent... but the 5th fret does signal to me that the minor we're looking for is "A").
Niels pointed out in an earlier post that the relative minor's root can be found by playing the scale: specifically, the relative minor's root is the 6th tone of the major scale. A C scale looks like this:
C D E F G A B C
A is the 6th tone, so Am is the relative minor to C major.
Lots of ways to get to the same answer. |
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Josh Welch
From:
Veyo, Utah, USA
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Posted 16 Dec 2013 12:51 pm
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Tucker,
Thanks for the heads up, some how I missed Rogers post until after I had posted. |
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Niels Andrews
From:
Salinas, California, USA
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Posted 16 Dec 2013 1:32 pm
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I think this was a great question and thank Michael for asking it.
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo. |
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