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Topic: MSA Springs |
Skip Ellis
From:
Bradenton, Fl USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2013 10:19 am |
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The pedal return springs on my MSA SS Classic are the coil type with one leg going each direction. I love the guitar but like to be able to rest my foot on the pedal without its going down until I push it. In other words, the action is too soft and I'd like to stiffen it up some. Does anyone know a source for a stiffer spring of this type? Don't know if this type spring was used on other MSA models or not.
Thanks!!
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2013 Brook Torridge, 2014 Martin 000-18, two homebrew Teles, Evans RE200 amp, Quilter 101R head, understanding wife of 45 years. 'Steeless' at the moment but looking...... |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2013 11:25 am
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Skip, those are lower return springs. They won't help your pedal sensitivity. They just insure the lower fingers don't pull away from the stop bar when a raise is done.
IMHO, you will need to change some pull rod positions on bellcranks, or changer holes, to stiffen up the pedal action.
Moving the bellcrank position of a pull rod farther away from the body will make for stiffer pedal action, but shorter pedal travel.
Moving the pull rod position closer to the body at the changer will also stiffen the pedal action and result in shorter pedal travel.
This is all a matter of trade offs as to what you want the pedals to feel like. I like somewhat stiff pedals and I like the associated stiff action, but some players want just the opposite....soft action where longer travel isn't a big deal.
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Best regards,
Mike |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2013 11:30 am
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By the way, if you'd like adjustable lower return springs on your MSA Classic, Michael Yahl sells an "adapter" and set of springs and screws to convert an old MSA. It's very cool and you will be able to fine tune all the return springs to perfection.
PS. Over tight return springs will make a lower harder than it should be.
Just a thought.
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Best regards,
Mike |
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Skip Ellis
From:
Bradenton, Fl USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2013 11:39 am
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Mike, those aren't the springs I'm talking about. These are wrapped around the cross rod where the pedal rod connects - it's a pedal return spring.
_________________
2013 Brook Torridge, 2014 Martin 000-18, two homebrew Teles, Evans RE200 amp, Quilter 101R head, understanding wife of 45 years. 'Steeless' at the moment but looking...... |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2013 12:23 pm
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I apologize, Skip. I misread your post.
I think maybe McMaster Carr has what you need. You'll just need to make a couple measurements of your current springs and compare. Here's the page I came up with....
http://www.mcmaster.com/#torsion-springs/=ou46xw
But you might be better off contacting Jim Palenscar.
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Best regards,
Mike |
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Skip Ellis
From:
Bradenton, Fl USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2013 12:47 pm
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That's it, Mike. I just need to find one that's a little heavier duty than what's in there. I was hoping someone else had been through the same thing. Maybe Jim will jump in later.
Thanks again!!!
_________________
2013 Brook Torridge, 2014 Martin 000-18, two homebrew Teles, Evans RE200 amp, Quilter 101R head, understanding wife of 45 years. 'Steeless' at the moment but looking...... |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 7 Oct 2013 1:28 pm
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Or put some tugging on bellcranks, too? Just more of the same?
I would also add that I am NOT a fan of resting your feet on the pedals. That sounds like poor technique.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Skip Ellis
From:
Bradenton, Fl USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2013 2:02 pm
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Sorry you don't approve of the way I play, Lane, but it works for me and I've been playing that way for close to 40 years and and I'm not about to change now. When your ankles get as old as mine, holding them up all the time is real uncomfortable. I think that a guitar with too light a pedal action leaves you open to doing an accidental partial raise when you don't want to. I learned on a PP D-10 straight out of the factory that was set up for a very well known (now deceased) player and I figured if it was good enough for him, it was good enough for me. I'll quit now before I get in a pi$$ing contest.
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2013 Brook Torridge, 2014 Martin 000-18, two homebrew Teles, Evans RE200 amp, Quilter 101R head, understanding wife of 45 years. 'Steeless' at the moment but looking...... |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 7 Oct 2013 2:03 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
Or put some tugging on bellcranks, too? Just more of the same?
I would also add that I am NOT a fan of resting your feet on the pedals. That sounds like poor technique. |
I rest my foot on the pedals, too, but I've learned not to do it with enough force to activate the pedals. (I believe this is a requisite skill.) Adding heavier springs might sound like an okay idea, but it will cause increased wear (from the increased pedal pressure) and it will also likely increase any cabinet drop you might have. A safer approach might just be to put some foam rubber under the pedals. |
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Skip Ellis
From:
Bradenton, Fl USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2013 2:09 pm
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Donny, my guitar is VERY sensitive - if you put ANY pressure on the pedal, it pulls the string. I may try putting an extra straight pull spring behind the bellcrank as Lane suggested - might work.
_________________
2013 Brook Torridge, 2014 Martin 000-18, two homebrew Teles, Evans RE200 amp, Quilter 101R head, understanding wife of 45 years. 'Steeless' at the moment but looking...... |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 7 Oct 2013 2:16 pm
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If any pedal movement causes pitch change, try adding some slack: give the pedal stop some more play, back off the tuning nuts. That way, the pedal will move a bit before engaging the fingers. Learn to stay in the free play zone.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2013 3:35 pm
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If you have 2 holes in each pedal for the pedal rod "quick connect", check to see where it is,,,
The hole farther away from the pedal rack will stiffen the pedal feel. Might be exactly what you are looking for. i just went through the same thing on my own MSA.Closer hole to the pedal rack gives a long soft pedal throw, further hole gives a shorter stiffer feel... I would try it and see if thats what you are seeking... bob
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 7 Oct 2013 5:03 pm
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| Actually it would be difficult to find a pedal return spring that would solve your problem. Generally if the pulls have been properly balanced (meaning that all involved strings begin at the same point) your problem will probably go away. The most common pedal involved is the B pedal where 2 hole bellcranks were commonly used for both the 6th and the 3rd string. In order to achieve a balanced pull a 4 hole bellcrank is needed on the 3rd string. Use the longest/easiest pull on the 6th string (furthest raise from the changer axle and closest to the cross shaft on the bellcrank) and then the shortest/stiffest pull on string 3 (closest to the changer axle and furthest hole from the cross shaft on the bellcrank) and that should be close depending on which model that you have. You might have to adjust the 3rd string pull a titch to make it perfect. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 8 Oct 2013 3:40 pm
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| Skip Ellis wrote: |
| Donny, my guitar is VERY sensitive - if you put ANY pressure on the pedal, it pulls the string. |
My guitar has slack in the pulls (as all all-pull models should) and all the pedals will move about 1/8" - 1/4" before any strings are activated.  |
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