How do you view the Steel Guitar neck?

Bo Legg · Posted 3 Aug 2013 6:17 pm

Since Stuart and I visualize the PSG neck in horizontal and vertical intervals of a given Mode.
Viewing standard tab is somewhat contrary to our view of the PSG neck in that the numbers on the tab represent the fret and not the note.
For that reason we do most of our research within a spreadsheet and then transcribe it into standard notation and tab.
Stuart has for a while been working on a new type of tab that would let you visualize transcriptions for the PSG as horizontal and vertical intervals without the aid of notation.
Stuart said I could borrow this one little lick as an example. So I thought Iâ€™d share it with you and see if you can figure it out.
Tell me how you think it works and how you visualize the PSG neck?
midi clip of tab
click here

Tim Konecky · From: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA

I like it! Seems like it would be a great learning tool to help someone wanting to "think this way". Although maybe a bit complicated for a beginner.

It's sad, but after 5+ years of playing this thing I'm only finally starting realize this kind of stuff. Having this kind of knowledge (being aware of where you are in scale intervals rather than simply chord positions and pedal\lever changes) is great tool to have in your back pocket. It really opens up some possibilities.
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Damien Odell · From: Springwood, New South Wales, Australia

Usually with extreme confusion.

richard burton · From: Britain

I've put a red outline around the bits that I don't understand.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Sorry, none of it makes any sense to me, without more detailed explanation, and I've been playing (at) pedal steel since 1969.

Don Sulesky · From: Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH

Why confuse playing the steel more than it is already. I teach steel and have no idea what all this is about. I guess it only makes sense to the one who wrote it. Wini tried an approach to a new way to tab and it went nowhere.
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Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Well, if I'm interpreting it correctly, I think it may well be a lot better than standard tab. Here's what I see:

a) the brackets show the beats (subdivided into 8ths, or showing triplets with a '3') within the vertical bar lines

b) fret #s are above the brackets (so we start with a triplet pickup at the 12th fret)

c) the numbers in the main grid are the intervals from the key signature (we don't need them anymore to tell us what strings to pick; the strings are shown at the left and the fret shown at the top). So instead, they tell us that the first pickup note is the 5th, the second note is the 6th and the third note is the root (when pedal 'B' is engaged)

d) In the 2nd bar, you would hit the 5th string at 12th fret (which is the 2nd interval) and then press A pedal to slide (">") into the 3rd interval (3A) without picking it (hence the parentheses: means don't pick again) and hold it through the second beat (when the parentheses closes). The b7B means you play the flat-7 interval (now at the 10th fret - see top) on the 6th string with pedal B engaged and then ">" means you release the pedal to play the 6th interval. etc.

I think this gives you everything standard tab gives you and MORE. It still tells you to play each string at each fret and when to engage or release pedals. That's where standard tab ends. But this one, in addition, shows you the beat divisions at the top (standard tab is notoriously lacking in giving any idea of the rhythm of the notes), and also teaches you (or reinforces if you already know how) to think in terms of musical intervals, which standard tab does not do at all. I think that's a really important thing.

Some folks have produced tab that also has the musical notation on a parallel staff. That's good if you know how to read music; then you're pretty much done - except many people who can read music still don't know what intervals they're playing and if someone asks them to flat the 3rd or the 7th, etc., they don't know which note on the page that is. I think learning to read music is a great, core skill for all musicians (full disclosure: I'm not too hot at it myself but can read a leadline out of tempo) but I also think that interval awareness is another important core skill - especially for any musician who is called upon to improvise. Stuart's notation is a great step forward in that direction.

Right now my only suggestion would be to add the chords somewhere. Also, this might get a little tricky when the key area of a song changes temporarily (e.g., moving 2-5-1's) since you'd probably stick with the original key's numbering system (musicologists know this as "fixed do" vs "movable do"), but for most popular music outside of jazz and classical, that shouldn't be a problem that occurs much.

I commend Stuart for this advance.

Jim
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Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

What Jim said.

Compared to most standard tab, this better represents what I am thinking (at some level just below the conscious surface) when I am playing. Like Jim, I would add the chords, because that is what I am thinking one level higher.

I agree that this would be confusing for a beginner with no music theory knowledge, but for a guitar player (say) coming to the steel with a firm grasp of scales and intervals, Bo's tab might actually be more helpful. Not only would the new player be learning where to pick which strings, and what pedal/levers to engage, but he/she would be able to relate it to the function of the notes. That would likely accelerate the learning process.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Thanks to Jim's explanation, I understand it and like it. Sans explanation, I found it impenetrable, but understanding how it works, I do think it has a lot to offer, both in terms of phrasing and helping folks understand what's happening chord theory-wise (like in that other thread, you don't HAVE to understand what's going on, but it damn sure doesn't hurt).
Good work, Messrs. Legg
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Rick Myrland · From: New Orleans

"I also think that interval awareness is another important core skill - especially for any musician who is called upon to improvise."

Per Jim's quote above, there is so much discussion about intervals on this forum, and about improvising, but this is the first time (that I recall) seeing both phrases used in the same sentence. And while I still can't put these two concepts together and have it make any useable sense to me, this would be a great teaching topic.

Why don't we see these kinds of seminars at the International convention? Seems a lot of beginners and intermediate level players struggle with this. Time to add this to the seminar listing in St. Louis.
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Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I like it. I use these same type of brackets, or slashes, to keep track of beats when writing out complex (multiple chords per beat) chord charts by hand. If I want to communicate the melody on a chord chart, I usually write out the single notes of the melody as numbers underneath, instead of standard musical notes. This tab takes all that several steps further.

Anyway, it's straightforward to add the actual chord (or chord number, as long as you keep track of where I is). But that's more to aid in interpretation - it isn't required to play the piece, just as it isn't required when reading standard music notation. For clarity, I would include key and time signatures, but these are all pretty simple additions.

Good work, gentlemen.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Where are the chords?

I like the standard tab system a lot better. In standard tab, you don't have to look up above the grid to see what fret you're at. There's less eye movement and less chance to get lost.

I think that the interval numbers, while nice to know, are too much information when you're just trying to read and play the music.

The biggest problem with tab is the lack of timing information. You've solved that. Good.
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Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Bill Ladd · From: Wilmington, NC, USA

Guess I'm just dumb.
Little help me with this?

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

The E lever is engaged for both notes. At the 9th fret it's a flat-3rd; at the 10th fret it's a natural 3rd.
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Bill Ladd · From: Wilmington, NC, USA

Right. Forgot about the fret positions all the way up at the top of the chart. (I was reading lowering the eight string with the e lever at the third fret and then moving up to what appeared was the same note.)

No sir, don't like it.
And I need the chords.

Bill Ladd · From: Wilmington, NC, USA

To the original question - this is how I most often view it:

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

One possibility would be to put the fret number closer to the string tab. Putting the fret-number/beat-brackets below the string tab would do that. Since I'm normally looking down at music, I think that would tend to put the fret number more in my natural field of vision anyway.

Daniel Policarpo · Posted 4 Aug 2013 7:46 am

It took me a couple seconds, but then I got it. I think for a beginner this would be really helpful in terms of really getting into how characteristics of intervals create the effect through melody. Especially for more of the stock licks we are prone to learning for country music. I would have to explore this a little more, but I like the idea behind it. I don't think its meant for quick "sight" reading,but I have a tough time memorizing tablature, though once I see it on the fretboard its locked into my memory pretty strong. Maybe this could provide a key to notating the stuff I learn. I'm gonna work with this a bit through the old pencil and paper. Thanks for letting us know.

Bill Ladd · From: Wilmington, NC, USA

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Even with the explanations, I still don't get it, or like it.

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Jack, you don't have to like it of course, but which part don't you get?
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Brett Lanier · From: Madison, TN

I like it too. Especially for having the scale tones on the notes. Makes it easier to share lines with other band members, or harmonize them. Or, to tell what kind of chord really should be played rather than just going by what's given.
One thing I don't like is the extra space between beats of eighth notes. I see why it's there, but I think it could be more concise without it. Maybe enlarge the graph a little if you need to.
I'd also flip the arrow (<) around depending on which way the string is being pulled. Writing in the chords, and lowering the fret positions should be easy.

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

I like it. It's intuitive. Took all of 30 sec to understand & it's much more visual than standard tablature, (which is text-like). Seems quicker as well. There is no reason that the chord chart written above

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

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