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Topic: What does the term 'around the horn' mean to you (musically) |
Steve English
From:
Baja, Arizona
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Posted 22 Jul 2013 12:05 pm |
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In the musical sense, what does "around the horn" mean to you?
I've had musicians use this phrase to describe a chord pattern they play in a particular song, however I've never any two of them to agree on exactly what it means.
Example: Guitar player calls of "Right or Wrong" and tells a temp player (sitting in) "It's in E and just goes "around the horn".
Example: (and this post by Ray Thomas, http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=249565 , is what prompted me to ask the questions) Band member calls off "Deep Water" and says "take it around the horn at the middle and end of the chorus.... which, in the key of F, he wanted F, Cdim, Bb, C.
(I also want to start a thread on favorite turns using passing chords such as in "You're Something Special To Me" which there are a k-zillion different inversions of who-knows-how-many extended chords.... which have also been referred to me as "around the horn"  )
Now neither of the above are even remotely similar, which is why I ask the question ; What does "Around the Horn" mean to YOU??....
No baseball stuff, and not in the context of a jam session where multiple people are taking turns playing 
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Always remember you're unique..... Just like everyone else |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 22 Jul 2013 12:15 pm
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"Around the horn" originally comes from the idea of navigating around Cape Horn, which was always considered long, difficult, and even perilous. In pretty much any context except baseball, I consider going "around the horn" to be to take the long and/or difficult way to do something. So reharmonizing a tune using "a kazillion extended chord voicings" would fit with that idea. But there could be other ways to think about it, such as simply adding bars to something, taking a lot of choruses in a solo, and so on.
Last edited by Dave Mudgett on 22 Jul 2013 12:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 22 Jul 2013 12:20 pm
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In my experience, "around the horn" means you go around the circle of fourths. So, for example, if you're starting in key of C, you'll modulate first to F, then Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, B, E, A, D, G and back to C. Most tunes won't go all the way around the horn, but there might be 3 or 4 modulations in a 'fancy' one...
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 22 Jul 2013 12:23 pm
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In my experience with the phrase in NYC "Around the horn" means a standard progression/turn around. Generally it refers to III, VI, II, V, I. Like rhythm changes or maybe just VI, II, V, I depending on context.
Dave, you get an E+ for your creative yet incorrect answer 
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Bob |
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Steve English
From:
Baja, Arizona
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Posted 22 Jul 2013 12:29 pm
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And, confusingly enough, I've been told the most common example is playing the circle of fifths, used in the same manner as Jim's example of the circle of fourths.
I had to wonder if they meant going counter-clockwise in the circle of fifths, which would be fourths??
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Bobby Bowman
From:
Cypress, Texas, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 22 Jul 2013 1:21 pm Horn
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Hoffnar nailed it,,,either way!!!! 
BB
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 22 Jul 2013 1:42 pm
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Actually, Bob, both your example and Jim's (which are each distinct) are particular cases of what I'm talking about. And the phrase 'around the horn' really does have its origin in sailing around Cape Horn, although there are a myriad of context-dependent semantics to this now, e.g., see the urban dictionary and other sources (not musical).
For example, if you play a blues, one can do a simple 3-chord version, or one can add ii/V's at will, do cyclical 4th/5th modulations, or some other device to add complexity and/or tension. Any of them could be considered going 'around the horn', and someone used to simple approaches may find them complex and/or difficult to follow. So I guess it depends on your perspective. Someone who doesn't understand harmony might consider anything that isn't 'as-written' going 'around the horn'.
Basically, I more or less agree with this statement as a matter of practice:
| Quote: |
| I've had musicians use this phrase to describe a chord pattern they play in a particular song, however I've never any two of them to agree on exactly what it means. |
OK, I wouldn't argue that I've never met any two musicians who interpreted it the same, but simply that I've heard many different interpretations, not just a NYC/Philly jazz-influenced one. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 22 Jul 2013 2:30 pm
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| 6, 2, 5, 1 |
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Steve English
From:
Baja, Arizona
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Posted 22 Jul 2013 2:57 pm
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Hey Paul, or either of the Bobs....
Can you give an example of a song and where you would play the 6-2-5-1 ?
And....do you ever use minors for the 6 & 2 ?
Thanks to all of you for your replies, very interesting.
_________________
Always remember you're unique..... Just like everyone else |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 22 Jul 2013 3:02 pm
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In my experience it is a stage shorthand. You are playing a tune that you don't know so the bass player says don't worry the bridge is a major three then around the horn. If it is trad jazz or western swing tune that means everything is probably dom 7 chords. If the tune is more of a jazz tune the secondary dom chords might be minor or flat 9 subs. It depends on the context.
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Bob
Last edited by Bob Hoffnar on 22 Jul 2013 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Steve English
From:
Baja, Arizona
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Posted 22 Jul 2013 3:08 pm
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Thanks BH, that is great info!
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Always remember you're unique..... Just like everyone else |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 22 Jul 2013 3:20 pm
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Dave,
I have revised your grade down to an E because the charm of your wrong yet creative answer has been lost by your attempt at digging yourself out of the hole you dug yourself in
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Bob |
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John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 22 Jul 2013 3:38 pm
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| My dad was a Big Band saxman,he always referred to a 3625 progression as "around the Bush"!! JS |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 22 Jul 2013 4:03 pm
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| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
In my experience with the phrase in NYC "Around the horn" means a standard progression/turn around. Generally it refers to III, VI, II, V, I. Like rhythm changes or maybe just VI, II, V, I depending on context.
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+1 |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2013 1:16 am
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I have heard it referred to going through circle of fourths.
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 23 Jul 2013 4:13 am
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i did'nt know the term " around the horn "
but i figured it was the cycle of 4ths & gettin' off when or where you like or need to
Dave & Bob H, i'm really diggin' U 2... 
you're not left out Jimbeaux cause you always have that pinch of wit
Musik is fun & you'ze guys give it a lift
Rock on & or is Swing it ? |
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Rand Anderson
From:
Cardiff, California, USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2013 8:30 am
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Maybe I should stop running circles around the sax player
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pedal steel - so easy even a caveman can do it! |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Gary Lee Gimble
From:
Fredericksburg, VA.
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2013 11:31 am
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| I've always interpreted as - play a complete verse or a complete chorus or both. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2013 11:32 am
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| ...as opposed to "let's trade fours" ie, you play four measures than I play four measures, then you play four etc. |
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Ron Pruter
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2013 1:19 pm
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Yes Jim. You are chopped liver. Grade A, Choice chopped liver. I've heard you play.
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Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112. |
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