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Topic: Question about early Fender Walnut finishes |
Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 4 Jul 2013 1:38 pm |
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I just acquired this 1953 Fender D-8 and I'm wondering about the walnut finish. I've owned a couple of walnut Stringmasters, and the finishes on those were solid brown, no burst. This earlier walnut D-8 shows a bit of sunburst, and I'm wondering if this is due to 60 years of aging or if it was originally finished that way.
I think the finish is original for several reasons. The original electronics are intact, no changed parts, original solder joints. The paint inside the body cavities (under the control plate and under the tuner pans) is the same as the rest of the guitar. The pencil date is written on the body, under the rear tuner pan. The quality control "masking tape" is still inside the body. In the cavity for the volume and tone controls there is a little piece of masking tape glued to the bottom. Handwritten: "Gloria 5/26/53". The old logo is on the front, and there are a lot of dings and scratches in the finish.
I remember some spirited threads here about whether or not Fender did sunburst finishes back in the day. I was always on the "no way!" side, but now I'm rethinking that.
The flash went off in the bottom picture and that really highlights the finish. BTW, I'm loving the sound of this guitar. These trapezoid pickup really have a Bite. Way more than the Stringmaster IMO. The pickup resistance is 10.95K and 10.38K. I'm doing some cleanup on the guitar now. The metal is polishing up nicely. The body has a lot of dings and gouges, unfortunately, but every ding tells a story.  I'd like to hear from other owners of similar guitars regarding the finish. Burst or no burst?
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Last edited by Doug Beaumier on 4 Jul 2013 3:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
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Posted 4 Jul 2013 1:55 pm
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Nice sore Doug 
| Quote: |
| This earlier walnut D-8 shows a bit of sunburst, and I'm wondering if this is due to 60 years of aging or if it was originally finished that way |
No way that faded that way, it was definitely sprayed that way. As to if its original or not, I'm no expert, but from your observations and its appearance, I'd not bet against it being original.
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 4 Jul 2013 2:04 pm
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No kind of way I'm going to question your finishing chops with those beautiful hand finishes you do, Tom  but I was wondering just the opposite--is there a chance that the area protected from any physical contact by strings lighter for some reason? Could this actually be natural aging?
edit: that was poorly worded. My question is--could the presence of strings have protected the lighter strip from oxidation caused by hand oils etc.? |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 4 Jul 2013 2:23 pm
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Yo Doug:
Glad you were able to acquire the guitar and the metal parts looks like they cleaned up nicely. I'm no expert on finishes but the instument has a lot of character for sure. Some players may say refinishing the guitar is a sacrilidge others may say restore it. I say, do whatever you want to do.
BTW, the ohms on the pickups seem pretty beefy and should kick the input of any amp nicely I would look forward to hearing it sometime.
Lenny |
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Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
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Posted 4 Jul 2013 2:25 pm
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| Quote: |
| I was wondering just the opposite--is there a chance that the area protected from any physical contact by strings lighter for some reason? Could this actually be natural aging? |
I really don't think so because its too even ... too deliberate.
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 4 Jul 2013 2:35 pm
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| Good point. |
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Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
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Posted 4 Jul 2013 2:37 pm
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| I know that Fender did a two tone burst on it's guitars in the early 50s, and that's probably what we're seeing here. |
That would be my thought too, the colors are exactly what I'd expect to see on a vintage 2 tone Fender burst.
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John Dahms
From:
Perkasie, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 4 Jul 2013 3:05 pm
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Fender never said it put anything other than walnut or blond out but I have seen others like yours too and just like how they only made Yellow MOTS and a few Blue MOTS Champions I have seen other colors of them as well. Just because they never said it doesn't mean they never did it.
All the signs point toward yours being original (and cool).
_________________
Time flies like an eagle
Fruit flies like a banana. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 4 Jul 2013 3:22 pm
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Doug--I've got one in awful condition that I'll try to get at to shoot some pics but it definitely has nothing resembling light/dark variation (shooting to hell any theories I may have about it maybe being natural patina).
It has been drilled out for coat hanger pullers in the keyheads, destroying any pencil dates that would have been there so I can't date it. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 4 Jul 2013 4:02 pm
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It's a nice-looking guitar, whether the finish is original or not.  |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 4 Jul 2013 5:55 pm
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Can't answer your question, but man she is sweet!
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Jeff Spencer
From:
Queensland, Australia
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Posted 5 Jul 2013 3:06 am
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| Man oh man. That is very nice!!! |
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Dan Carey
From:
Mahopac N.Y
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Posted 5 Jul 2013 7:10 am
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Walnut or Refinished................
Last edited by Dan Carey on 5 Jul 2013 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 5 Jul 2013 9:11 am
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As I study mine I'm becoming convinced that with everything else it was burdened with, it was also refinished. It looks like something was just sort of brushed on. The front apron diamonds are partially covered with a yellowing finish.
So bottom line, my guitar provides nothing in the way of clues or info pertaining to your research, Doug (I don't think).
But it's entertaining.
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And to quote Don Corleone:"Look what they done to my boy"
For years I've intended to do something with this but eventually it may end up getting parted out. No decision yet. |
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Dan Carey
From:
Mahopac N.Y
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Posted 5 Jul 2013 11:30 am
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I have called Jody Carver in regard to this, he said this is very much an orignal guitar, signed by Gloria Fuentes....as far as the pickup OHM factory trapezoids had 8.98 on all these pickups, however that would not deem this a refinshed guitar.
I hope this helps
Thanks
Dan
Last edited by Dan Carey on 21 Aug 2013 12:14 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 5 Jul 2013 12:24 pm Re: Question about early Fender Walnut finishes
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Beautiful Dual, Doug! In my mind, there is no doubt that in the early '50s Fender did this sort of finish on some of their steel guitars. Whether we want to call it Burst or not, it is definitely shaded as your guitar so clearly shows. I've put pictures of my (no longer owned) '54 Stringmaster next to a few of yours for comparison. These pics are courtesy of the Elderly archives, where I consigned it.
Like yours, the same color was under the tuning pans with pencil date written on top, and the masking tape in the cavity (Gloria!) with the original electronics. Old dings in the finish...etc.
One thing that could have left room for doubt is that mine had no logo, which could be proof of refinish for some despite the other things I mentioned. Seeing yours, with the logo with the identical finish should dispel that.
What are the chances that two different owners in different places and times refinished their guitars in exactly the same way that could match color this way?
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 5 Jul 2013 2:14 pm
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Scott, that's a beautiful early Stringmaster! Yes, the finish is a lot like mine. It's even more defined 2-tone burst than mine, and it was made a year after mine. I think what we're seeing here is the early development of the sunburst finish, although Fender didn't call it sunburst at that time. They probably started calling it sunburst when they introduced the 3-color burst.
Jon, Your guitar could probably be restored. Most of the parts are there, although someone cut the nuts off (no jokes please!) of the tuner pans. You could probably get some 8-string nuts or have a couple made.
_________________
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25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 5 Jul 2013 2:29 pm
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Great! That sonic description does inspire me to maybe get involved with bringing mine back to the living.
re: the nut--actually, Doug, I've got the nuts right here. The Dual Pros had two different nut styles--one-piece with the tuner pans like yours and Stringmaster style which is what I've got. I do not know the dates of that transition but that info would would certainly help date mine. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 5 Jul 2013 2:44 pm
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Ah... I didn't know there was another style of nut for the D-8. That's good to know. Jon, you should consider restoring your guitar. If the pickups are weak they can be rewound. The main issue IMO would be the tuners. Most of these early style tuners were welded to the bottom of the tuner pan, so it's hard to remove or change any broken tuners. I have seen other pans on these dual pros that had removable tuners (not welded to the pan).
As far as the trapezoid PU tone, I think one the best examples is Santo's original SleepWalk. His Fender Custom really has a cutting, biting tone on that record. On the album cover he's playing a T-8 Stringmaster, but that picture was taken a couple of months after the recording.
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 5 Jul 2013 2:54 pm
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Yeah--neglected/forgot to mention that there are at least two tuners and maybe more that need attention. Broken welds. I know that they can be fixed---possibly by a jewelry maker and if I research it, there was someone on the forum years ago who was repairing these.
But I'm really sorry for the hijack. This is about your sweet new horn. |
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