| Author |
Topic: Tuning the B raise to C# |
Doc Hall
From:
Galveston, Tx
|
Posted 11 Jun 2013 11:10 am |
|
| Guys...give me some advice. I've played for many years and through all my approaches to tuning I've never been happy with the way the B string raise on the E9th tunes out. I've come to the conclusion that my hearing just doesn't discriminate well in that range. Tuned straight up...don't like it. Tuned a bit flat seems better but not great. |
|
|
 |
Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
|
Posted 11 Jun 2013 11:48 am
|
|
It might have to do with the amount of cabinet drop your guitar exhibits.
I've always tuned it 5-10 cents flat regardless of guitar to be "just" depending on how much cabinet drop the guitar exhibits.
On a guitar that I own that exhibits more cabinet drop than usual I also have it pull the G# slightly then my major triad sounds more acceptable as well.
This may stir up a hornets nest but my opinion is most "straight up" advocates are people with guitars that have little to no cabinet drop. |
|
|
|
Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
|
Posted 11 Jun 2013 10:14 pm
|
|
Doc,
I'd suggest giving Larry Bell's very clever tuning method a try.
It very neatly allows each guitar to accommodate to its own degree of cabinet drop, and specifically helps to get the E and B notes in tune with each other. I've been using his approach for years.
http://www.larrybell.org/id32.htm
-Dave |
|
|
|
Stuart Legg
|
Posted 11 Jun 2013 11:24 pm
|
|
| If you tune straight up, cabinet drop is not a factor. |
|
|
|
Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
|
Posted 12 Jun 2013 7:18 am
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
|
Posted 12 Jun 2013 9:12 am
|
|
Perhaps I don't have the meaning of straight up corect but here's what I mean Stuart:
With no pedals or levers actuated, if I tune my E string straight up, ie with the needle on my tuner not indicating flat or sharp but rather right on the money, then pedal my C# change only, and tune that pull so that the C# note is straight up too, then the E and the C# will be out of tune with each other.
This is because my E dropped slightly due to the cabinet drop that resulted from my C# pedal actuation. Therefore I must slightly flat my C# change, ie not straight up, to get it to be in tune with my E.
With no cabinet drop this would not be necessary. |
|
|
|
Doc Hall
From:
Galveston, Tx
|
Posted 12 Jun 2013 9:51 am
|
|
| Yes, Dave, I do like Larry Bell's approach. It really helped me and my intonation has improved. I probably need to review it as I may have embellished it in a negative way. It just seems that the B to C# pull eludes my hearing. |
|
|
|
Jim Robbins
From:
Ontario, Canada
|
Posted 12 Jun 2013 1:49 pm
|
|
I feel your pain about that change. To me, it has to be pretty in tune with the G# strings so if you use it for a C# minor chord (or with the F lever, C# major), those perfect intervals are close to just intonation. I have a lot less tolerance for what is an 'in tune' perfect interval (4th, 5th & octave) than imperfect (6th, 3rd). This is no doubt partly due to the widespread use of equal temperament which gets pretty close with the perfect intervals but not so close with the imperfect ones, and partly due to a host of other historical & cultural factors.
Also, if you use the C# raise in connection with F# strings, that had better be close to just intonation or you will really notice it.
So I'll try to get G#-C# and F#-C# sounding good and beating only slowly, and fudge a little more with intervals like A - C# and E- C#.
Some days, nothing seems to work though -- I think it's got to do with humidity or the configuration of the stars. (And I'm only partly joking.) In which case I'll just tune everything ET to a tuner and just play. After all, on a 6 string you have to compromise on octaves. |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 12 Jun 2013 3:42 pm
|
|
I tune very close to JI, because for me, that high triad simply has to be near beatless to sound good. I know a lot of players tune "straight up" (ET) to get everything else to work, but I see it as a fool's errand unless 3,4,& 5 aren't nearly "sweet". There's a couple of very famous players I can't stand to listen to for very long because of beats in that high major triad.  |
|
|
|
Doc Hall
From:
Galveston, Tx
|
Posted 13 Jun 2013 6:43 am
|
|
Dave - reviewed Larry B's info and sure enough I was embellishing the process. I followed it more closely and am pleased with the results. The B to C# still bugs me a little...but less so.
Jim R - You broke me up with the comment about being only partially joking. I can totally relate to your comments.
Donny - I tried tuning straight up early on in my playing and just didn't like it either. I always appreciate your posts.
Thanks to all others who posted...your comments were helpful. |
|
|
|
Stuart Legg
|
Posted 24 Jun 2013 11:52 am
|
|
Simple and quick way to tune and sound good with the band. Try it you'll like it!
You simply tune 0pen allowing an increase to whatever the cab drop is for your PSG. For instance if you have -8 cents (-2Hz) you would tune open +8cents or to 442Hz and then tune all the pedals and levers straight up.
The following chart is for the Stage One with -1Hz or -4cents as cab drop.
Here is going thru the open chords E(no pedals), A (A&B pedals), C# (A pedal and lever thar raises Es to F), G#m (B&C pedals), B6 (lever that lowers Es to Eb) and some chromatic dodles.
click here
Last edited by Stuart Legg on 24 Jun 2013 4:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
|
Posted 24 Jun 2013 4:00 pm
|
|
We don't flatten the thirds for the sake of cabinet drop, it's because they sound "sweeter" that way than at 0, because ET thirds are more tense than JI thirds.
Apples and kumquats. Cabinet drop would make the compensator guys have multiple pulls on everything, since pulling the Bs flattens the G#s AND the F# and E (but not as much).
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
|
|
|
