Pro Models Vs Student Models ???

Damir Besic · From: Nashville,TN.

I have a question for you guys, is there really such a big difference between student and pro models these days? when I look at Carter starter and GFI student model, it seems to me that those guitars have all the bells and whistles to make them a pro guitars. Is it a tone? I mean, there is a super nice Carter Starter for sale right now on the forum for $750 bucks, 3+4 and with a nice case, what makes that guitar less good than other pro models? Just a question,I guess, I'm thinking about buying a nice lite gear for pickin' around town, and a nice Carter starter or GFI student model, with a nice Peavey 112 sounds like a nice combo to me, is it not? What student model steel would be the best one to get?

Db
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Scott Duckworth · From: Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies

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Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

If we make the analogy of cars, would you rather drive a 30 year old worn out gas guzzler with torn seats and no radio, heater, or air conditioning, or a brand new hybrid with all the luxuries? They both will take you where you want to go. Which would you prefer?

I recently sat down at a Carter Starter and was appalled at how flimsy and clumsy it felt. I felt it was basically a piece of fecal matter. These may have been the first student guitars with 4 knee levers, but they have been superseded by the Stage One and Encore. In my opinion, they should be avoided altogether, and those who have one should upgrade to something better ASAP.
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Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

there is another way to look at this..and answer it... other considerations other than quality, because the question is for another "simple" guitar to take to a gig, implying you have a MAIN Steel already...

YES, some student guitars are made with less quality and less robust components.. and yes..you can get thru gigs with them...to me it's about playing what I know rather than playing LESS than what I know or working hard to find what I want...

Forgetting quality and brand names..Why would we go to a gig with an instrument that doesn't match what we practice/study/rehearse on?

that's all I got, a different perspective.

t
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David Nugent · From: Gum Spring, Va.

I believe that use of quality materials, construction, and attention to detail are very important considerations when dealing with this subject. As stated by Mike Perlowin, the Carter Starter while adequate for learning the basic fundamentals, may not hold up well for professional use. I attempted to use a 'Starter' that belonged to our guitar player a few times at rehearsal and can list several reasons for this statement (excessive cabinet drop, poorly designed pedal board mounting system where it would actually work itself loose and and detach from the legs while playing, overly long lever throw with faint feeling stops, etc.). On the positive side, anyone who has viewed the 'Virginia Dreams Center Stage' show on RFD TV can attest to what can be accomplished on a well constructed "student" model guitar (such as the 'Stage One') in the hands of a talented player like Michael Douchette.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I'd say the Encore is more of an "economy" model than a student model. Full features and an all-pull changer, designed for simple and low-cost assembly. Mullen has the Discovery in the same niche, and the Justice Pro Lite.

The Stage One and GFI Student models, while having pull-release changers (if you ask me, they have better tone anyway), are pretty solid axes, and could stand up to regular use

The CS has some build quality issues, I'd steer clear. They decided to give it a full all-pull changer, and the economies were taken in other aspects that kinda doomed the guitar.

The cheaper guitars, whether student or economy, have steps taken to make the guitars less expensive than the full-price axen. Only the ones that shave price by process (the "economy" models) are really a bargain.
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Damir Besic · From: Nashville,TN.

Encore looks pretty good, and with the price of around $1400 (with the 5th lever, that I don't need) is something I will be looking into, "Justice" S-10 with 3+4 is around $1600 would be a possibility as well, Mullen's "Discovery" with the price of $2200 is not something I would be looking into. So far, I think, Encore 3+4 is something I will be seriously thinking about. Btw. none of these guitars look to me like a "30 year old gas guzzler, with tore up seats" but more like a very well built instruments, that can take on any gig there is out there.... just my 2 cents

Db
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Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Damir, I agree. they are not 30 year old beaters, it is more like a brand new Hyundai Accent vs. a Dodge Charger or Ford Expedition. if you don't need an expedition, the Hyundai will work just fine
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Damir Besic · From: Nashville,TN.

Lane, thanks for the hands up, if it wasn't for your post I wouldn't even know about "Encore" guitars, I talked to Doug today and he was super nice and took time to answer every question I asked. I'm ordering a nice black Encore from him today. Thanks a bunch again Wink

Db
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Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

I have owned OR played just about every " student " model guitar out there ,
there are just 2 that I wouldn't give $ 5.00 for three of each of them !!!
and they are : the carter starter and the GFI student model .
I can not and will not speak bad about the pro model GFI as I have not played any of them .
but the student model.. don't even think about it

its like Mike said they are flimsy ... both the carter and GFI
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Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!

Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick

David Anderson · From: St. Louis, MO, USA

I lucked out and started on a MSA Classic. If I had started on a CS or GFI student model, I may not have stuck with it. When I sat down at a newer pro model for the first time, I immediately felt the difference. I have a BMI Axius on the way that I am very excited about. Considering the price, I'm surprised there is not more chatter agout the BMI steels. I have an older one in my studio right now that belongs to a friend and it plays and sounds great! The down side to the MSA was that it needed a bunch of work to get it playing right. If I hadn't been in a town that had a steel store with a good tech, I probably wouldn't have stuck with it. Buy the best guitar you can afford and you won't go wrong.

Eric Philippsen · From: Central Florida USA

I suppose it's only natural to compare student model steels to their big brothers, the pro ones. All of them lack in one way or another. But you can't be too hard on them because they are what they are.

In addition to x-number of regular push-pulls, I own two Emmons student models, both of which I've had additional knee levers added. They're now 3x4.

I think they are great fun to play. I also think, heresy of heresies, that Emmons student models are the BEST sounding push-pulls. Yep. To my mind their only drawbacks are that they can wobble a bit more than their big brothers and that their pedal bars are wooden.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Just so there is no confusion, my "30 year old gas guzzler, with tore up seats" and "fecal matter" comments referred the the Carter Starter, which to OP asked about.

I agree that the The stage one, encore a other economy models discussed here are significantly better.
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Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

I've played gigs with a Stage One, an Emmons Student Model, with 3x4, and the Justice S-10, 3+4. No problems at all. When weight is an issue, any of these are great. The Justice is the one I prefer, super sounding guitar. But I usually use a full size guitar, a Rittenberry or Derby. With the lighter guitars, I can load the guitar, amp, and seat onto a lightweight dolly and move it all very easily in one trip. Damir, I don't think you can go wrong with the Encore either. It looks excellent and I would like to have one myself.

Doc Hall · From: Galveston, Tx

Another vote for the Justice S-10 3X4. A great light weight guitar without a lot of compromises. A pleasure to play.

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

Doug has made a LOT of improvements from the early stage ones
and I even suggested to him that he should charge more
simply because its worth it
I for one like the pull release changer
its smooth and very easy to play also I like the weight of the guitar ,
it feels like a pro model as well as looks the part .
I'm sure there are some others student models available that are also good
but to me the stage one is hard to beat
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Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!

Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick

Greg Johnson · From: Greencastle, Pennsylvania, USA

When you got no money you buy what you can afford..... Just saying
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Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Many student guitars are fine to gig with, but the problem is that students (beginners) don't know how to set them up and tune them properly.

Also, the poll is flawed, in that most pros have no reason to own a student model, and most beginners (those with student models) haven't gotten good enough to get a gig.

Now, all that said, below is a link to a clip featuring Terry Crisp (on the second half of the video) that shows how good a cheap student model (a Carter Starter) can really sound. Of course, the bottom line is...if you don't sound this good and can't play this good (which I can't, by the way) you have absolutely no business blaming your guitar. Muttering

I guess you could say (myself included) that there are a lotta five-hundred dollar players with five-thousand dollar guitars. Neutral

(edited to add the link)

http://www.myvideo.de/watch/6652563/Carter_Starter_Demo

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

Donny said :

''Also, the poll is flawed, in that most pros have no reason to own a student model,''

most pros HAVE played student models , and at least in private will tell you which one are JUNK!!!
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proud parent of a sailor

Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!

Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick

Stan Paxton · Posted 17 Jul 2013 5:53 am

I have played the CS a little, anology to the clunky old pick-up was right on; altho I'm not a great player either. ...A friend of mine builds PSG's and he took a CS, rebuilt it and played it on stage. I found a world of different in the feel and playability after he rebuilt it, and it sounded real good. ...So, an inexpenseive student model does have potential, especially if one is able to rebuilt it. Smile

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Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I added the link (which I had forgoten) to my post above. Complainers would do well to listen to it! Winking

You don't need a great guitar to sound great.

End of story.

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

That starter sounded as good as any pro model .. they always did sound good, and so did the old Sho bud Mavericks...However, I have dealt with mechanical issues for guys on a few starters over the years, and they are really unreliable and flimsy.. The levers feel horrible, and the stops are just awful... They feel like they will snap in half any second.. Carter was a great steel guitar builder with Bud and John[RIP], but the starter was not a good representation of the company history of high quality.. It seems the makers of the current crop of "student" guitars understands that and have been making better quality and more dependable steels for students, or those on a smaller budget... bob
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Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

In defense of SOME student models I offer the following:
1) Many have said the Emmons student model sounds a bit better than other S-10 guitars
2) the Maverick has that Sho-Bud tone, although as a pull-release guitar, bringing it up to modern pull counts requires some ingenuity and work.

EDIT: to continue the car metaphor, you could do what Duckworth did and buy non-working 58 Ford and restore it.
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More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

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