Beard Road-o-phonic-issues and thoughts, for Roadie fans!

Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

I just got a beard Road-o-phonic (23" scale) and strung it up using a normal set of dobro strings...which resulted in much lower string tension than on a normal scale dobro (more like a lap steel).

Other than liking a lighter steel with it (Shubb GS-1 feels crisper than a Scheerhorn), will it really impact pull-offs, hammer-ons, tone, or what? I'm not even sure what the question really is....

I don't have a "real" dobro to compare it to...I'm a pedal steel player/lap steel player otherwise, this seemed like a nice instrument to play mostly plugged in on stage where acoustic tone isn't as important. And I like having easier slants due to the short scale...and the dobro tone adds a more variety to the band sound than a lap steel would, given that I also play pedal steel in the band.

tension in lbs., hi-to-lo
23" 25" difference
-------------
27 32 5
25 30 5
35 41.5 3.5 (.0028)
31 37 4
35 41 6
34 40 6

thanks in advance!

p.s. I really love that little dobro...just bonded with it instantly....fun to play.
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Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

That's a pretty big difference in scale lengths. It would be interesting to see what gauges the folks at Beard recommend for this instrument. Don't see anything listed on their site for it.

Perhaps Howard P. can offer some info.

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

The answer is simple. If your scale length is one fret shorter, then tune a semitone higher, and you maintain the same tension as on a regular-scale instrument with the same strings.

Imagine tuning a violin like a viola: the strings would be too slack. The pitch of an instrument is directly related to its string sounding length.

Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Alan-
Thanks for that, I get it, but I'd really rather keep it in GBDGBD....tuning higher makes playing open strings in a lower key (G) a bit of a problem....
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Peggy Green · From: San Jose, California USA

Hi Steve,

I have exactly the same question. I love my Road-O-Phonic. I tried a set of Beard Special 29's. Too much slack. The .018 - .056 gauges are too slack. Yes those strings are playable, but like a trampoline.

For 22 1/2 inch scale the Ernie Ball chart shows .056 string for F. Recommended for G would be .048 from the chart.

I am about to receive my new E Minor 22 1/2 scale from Beard, they've called to say it is going out the door and I should have it this week. I've asked about string gauges but have received no feedback.

The gauges for 22.5 scale from Ernie Ball chart.
D .018
B .022
G .026
D .036
B ..040
G .048

The gauges from Beard Special 29's
D .018
B .020
G .029
D .036
B ..045
G .056

Interestingly, the D's are the same gauge.

I think my Beard originally came with semi-flat wound strings.
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Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Hmmm....the strings I'm using are Dr. Ducks Dobro...
.016 .018 .028w .036 .046 .056

the Beard special 29's would be a help on the high strings....and even the ones I've got seem to work just fine, there just is some slack...but it actually is sort of a lap steel also, so unless you play only pure dobro style, maybe there is extra sustain (like a lap steel has) from the looser strings, which would be a good thing for an acoustically tiny instrument like the Road-o-phonic?

I've been using this tension calculator, it seems likely to be the most reliable:
http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/stringxxiii.html

I've pm'd Howard Parker to join us in this thread....we'll see
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Howard Parker · From: Maryland

I've been asked to respond to this..so I will.

Notice of full disclosure:

I worked full time at the Beard shop from 2003-2011 and played a sizable percentage of all Roadies built during that period. I am also (primarily) a dobro player of the "modern" variety. I also play console, lap and pedal steels for fun and profit(?).

Paul puts standard nickel wound dobro sets on these guitars. I forget if he uses Pearse or GHS. I think the latter.

Opinion follows:

I think y'all are over thinking this as I have never noticed a difference worth worrying about when switching between PB's Roadie and resonator guitar. My ability to pick, hammer on, pull off, slide or anything has never been an issue.

I've gigged with the Roadie and dobro together and never felt uncomfortable.

In my mind the Roadie is a unique beast, neither lap steel nor resonator guitar. The Roadie uses resonator mandolin components and offers something different in the sonic landscape.

There is nothing else like it.

Is this the answer y'all are looking for? Winking

Cheers

h

Peggy Green · From: San Jose, California USA

I put a standard A6 8 string set I bought from -b0b- on my Fender Deluxe Short Scale. It was very bouncy, trampoline like. When I made up a set per the Ernie Ball chart I had a much more stable string set with fuller tone and better sustain.

Most of all with aggressive finger style playing those bass strings slap around way too much.

Putting the Beard 29s on the Road-O-Phonic had the same effect on me.

I called Elderly who sold me my Road-O-Phonic and they had no alternatives to recommend and they actually are the ones who got me to order the Beard 29's.

I ain't thinkin' I'm feelin'. Instead of thinkin' I keep asking the simple question - what gauges?

The Road-O-Phonic is great. And I can see how a player primarily of a larger bodied dobro would feel fine with the Road-O-Phonic strung with the 29's. And it would be a relief for overused picking fingers to have a little less resistance. So I understand Howard's opinion and know it to be true.

But I am not alternating with a larger bodied dobro as my primary axe. I'm working on original material. I want fat strong notes from my strings, notes that don't get slapped around by strong attack.

Simply, what gauges?
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Howard Parker · From: Maryland

If it is distracting just bump it up a few .001's until you get what you like.

Buy a bunch of single strings and slap them on. You won't hurt anything.

h

Peter Jacobs · From: Northern Virginia

On my 22.5" scale steels using a low G tuning (like bottleneckers use), I found that .048 was too loose feeling, so I bumped it up to .052, which helped. Then I tried .054, which feels even better to me. It has enough resistance without being too taut, as compared to the rest of the strings. a .056 works too, but it isn't necessary (for me).
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Mike Brenner · From: Pennsylvania, USA

I play a Roadie and use GHS white bronze strings and substitute a .20 for 2nd string and move the .18 to first string. .16s feel to thin for me on top string.

you basically just have to get used to it. it's not going to push back like a modern dobro, but you want strings to be heavy enough. you have to adjust your touch a bit, possibly easier when you amplify it.

Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Mike -
Because of looking for stuff about the Roadie, I came across your music, and am suitably impressed by your playing, in all of the various styles you bring to steel guitar! Not sure why you use a Roadie instead of a regular lap steel (I think I spot a humbucker on the roadie in one of the youtubes?)....

re string gauge for high strings:
Thanks for the tip; strangely enough, I had just done that yesterday...it made all the difference. Now the top strings don't feel bouncy, and I can use the heavy Scheerhorn bar instead of the light Shubb GS and get good tone....tension is now pretty even across the strings, and closer to long-scale dobro tension.especially with the .028 third string instead of .026.
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Mike Brenner · From: Pennsylvania, USA

hi steve---thanks very much. at this point, i can't use anything else because
the feedback that i can generate out of the hollow roadie has become a large
part of my playing. i love pushing the volume pedal and getting the roadie to
feedback a bit, back off pedal, repeat.

you can get endless sustain after you get the hang of it. i like playing other
steels but the solid body models aren't as active as the roadie. i run it thru
a pedal board with some basic stuff and into a roland Cube 40 for one project
and an old princeton for another.

hope that helps, thanks, mike

Howard Parker · From: Maryland

Mike is the king of Roadie funk.

That's a GOOD thing imho! Very Happy

h

Mike Brenner · From: Pennsylvania, USA

haha love it! thanks Howard. I love my roadie. I did swap the lace pu out for a duncan humbucker, which makes the whole feedback thing much easier, less noise too. it's a great guitar, has it's own 'thing' somewhere between a gnarly lap steel and an amplified dobro.

Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

In a somewhat off-topic post, for those of you who don't know Mike Brenner, here are a few youtubes, two on the Roadie (very different music!) and one on the chaturangi....none of them "classic dobro"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e50KPpVvIME lap steel-ish
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4KgzCk_aQ8 unique....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1vLv6enr1Q chaturangi

Point being, (IMHO) on the Roadie, you can be whoever you want to be...and go anywhere from there, even to a chaturangi!

I love my Roadie even more now...and although I'll call it a dobro so others have a sense of where it sort of came from, I'll know that I can play anything I want on it...
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Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Gigged the roadie tonight....had it a week, long enough to "learn" open-G dobro tuning...it was great! Unlike full-size resonators, stage volume didn't scare the roadie...and as Mike Brennan pointed out, you can get nice, controllable feedback - continuous sustain - on it. Sounded great through the Milkman Pedal Steel amp (played most of the gig on pedal).

It was fun to have people come up and ask "what is that thing" about BOTH the pedal steel and the roadie...
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Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Still loving my Roadie, and using it for about 25% of the tunes at gigs now (pedal steel for the rest)...using the Lace single-coil only, without the mic mixed in, there are no feedback issues even though I'm sitting right in front of my amp, and near the drums (except when I want feedback, like Mike Brenner, I can do that easily)..and still enough dobro tone to be fine.

BUT.....

One issue I have is using a capo - I have both a Beard Wave and a Scheerhorn, which are great on a full size dobro, but on the Roadie, they really screw up the tuning - the bottom G especially, goes about 30 cents sharp, and the others float somewhat high or low....is it just the short scale?

I can't figure it out...for the tune in the key of B it is pretty much required...can't just slant it, or the low B and low D go out...

??
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Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor

Howard Parker · From: Maryland

I think like lap steel, not many people would capo the Roadie. In "B" there are licks to be found in open "G" tuning.

h

Mike Brenner · From: Pennsylvania, USA

my low G is usually flattened slightly in general, kind of tuned to the slightly flattened 2nd string/B. I haven't had any issues using my old Beard capo.

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