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Topic: Augmented Chord Using "F Lever" with A & B Ped |
Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 21 May 2013 9:46 am |
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I've been experimenting with tuning to "Just Intonation" lately. Typically, I tune somewhere between J.I. and E.T.
Tuning the beats out of the thirds, G#'s, C#'s, and F's, gives real sweet sounding major chords. (Let's not talk about those pesky F#'s.)
BUT! What about when you play an augmented chord, pressing the A and B pedals and using the "F Lever" (raising the 4th and 8th strings one-half step)?
Since the 4th string, E > F, is tuned so low, there is a whole bunch of dissonance going on between the 4th and 3rd strings.
What's the work-around for that pedal/knee-lever combination?
_________________
Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande
There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.
Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 21 May 2013 10:26 am Re: Augmented Chord Using "F Lever" with A & B
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| Lee Baucum wrote: |
I've been experimenting with tuning to "Just Intonation" lately. Typically, I tune somewhere between J.I. and E.T.
Tuning the beats out of the thirds, G#'s, C#'s, and F's, gives real sweet sounding major chords. (Let's not talk about those pesky F#'s.)
BUT! What about when you play an augmented chord, pressing the A and B pedals and using the "F Lever" (raising the 4th and 8th strings one-half step)?
Since the 4th string, E > F, is tuned so low, there is a whole bunch of dissonance going on between the 4th and 3rd strings.
What's the work-around for that pedal/knee-lever combination? |
The workaround is to get out of the clinical environment of a music room with a digital tuner, and get onstage with a Tele player who's got a set of .008s on his axe. Add to that a fiddle owner who's been playing for about 3 months.
Your aug. chord will sound just fine, trust me.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 21 May 2013 11:02 am
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Herb... 
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Peter Freiberger
From:
California, USA
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Posted 21 May 2013 11:09 am
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You can also try looking around for other positions where the same combination of notes are more in tune. In this case, one of those is up a fret, half pedaling (or splitting) the A pedal. Or up 5 frets from that AB position and using strings 4,5 and 6 with a half (or split) A pedal.
One of my favorite augmented positions avoids the F lever. For instance playing a major triad like 5,6 and 8 open and moving down one fret with A and B and lowering 8 for a nice contrary motion to an aug. seventh chord. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 21 May 2013 11:55 am
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If you voice it 5,6,8 you can true it a bit with a touch of bar slant. Or fingerpull
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Cal Sharp
From:
the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 22 May 2013 8:19 am
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I'm with Herb!
I don't have a problem with the A,B and F combination for an augmented chord.
I also don't have a problem with the A, B and E combination for a 9th chord. |
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Ray Anderson
From:
Jenkins, Kentucky USA
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Posted 22 May 2013 12:42 pm
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With ya' on that Erv, I wear out the AB + E , Love using those 9ths. Thanks to Mr. Newman.  |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 22 May 2013 1:06 pm
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Ray,
I really like the 9th chords, even on the rather simple country songs, just adds a little bit of flavor.  |
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Ray Anderson
From:
Jenkins, Kentucky USA
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Posted 22 May 2013 2:45 pm
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The truth of the matter is that playing 9ths , they make it appear that I'm better than I really am. If you can get by the audience you've got it whipped. But you'll never get by fellow musicians.   |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 23 May 2013 3:22 am
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I tune my Es and As (B pedal down) to 440,My B strings to 439, my G# strings, my C#s (A pedals down) and my E string raises and lowers to 437. My F# strings have compensators to bring them down from 440 to 437. String 1 is on the A pedal, string 5 is on the B.
It's not a perfect, but it works.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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bill dearmore
From:
Belton,Tx.,USA
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Posted 25 May 2013 11:01 am
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| One work around is to use B & C pedals rather than A & B, then if you have an all pull guitar(w/split tuning preferablly)lower the E's. Strings 3,4,5,6 will be your Aug7th(move the bar back a fret)...then add strings 8 and 10 for a bigger sounding 9 flat 5 chord...hope you find this interesting...Bill |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 25 May 2013 2:20 pm
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I’m getting me one of those Hammerbucker pickups invented by McDonald Sr. for my steel so I can just tune straight up and the McDonald Hammerbucker will smooth all those beats out and make me perfectly in tune.
For those strings that have that pulsating “ouu wah ouu wah ouu” the McDonald Hammerbucker will cancel them out with an electronic signal that produces an “Eee Iii Eee Iii O”. |
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Peter Nylund
From:
Finland
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Posted 25 May 2013 9:06 pm Re: Augmented Chord Using "F Lever" with A & B
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_________________
I know my playing is a bit pitchy, but at least my tone sucks |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 26 May 2013 6:13 am
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| I'm with Herb! Too many steelers spend too much time agonizing over trivialities. Get it to sound as good as you can...and then just go on playing. |
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Ron Pruter
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 26 May 2013 8:13 am
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I don't think being in tune is a triviality. I refuse to tune my F lever down 28 cents (Emmons) That's over a quarter of a fret.
Bill- Good idea. A little less handy, but good.
_________________
Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112. |
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Mike Taylor
From:
Wetumpka, AL
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Posted 26 May 2013 1:48 pm
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| vibrato.. more sometimes than others... especially with a fiddle player.. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 26 May 2013 3:52 pm
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Too many steelers spend too much time agonizing over trivialities. ) |
(Gasp) You mean it doesn't really matter whether we use .25 or .225 gauge picks, or a 7/8 or 15/16 inch bar? Jeez. Next you'll be telling us that black guitars don't really sound better than those with other colors.
I'm shocked. SHOCKED I tell you. I am so disillusioned that I may never recover.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Dickie Whitley
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Posted 26 May 2013 4:10 pm
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...
Last edited by Dickie Whitley on 30 May 2013 3:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 26 May 2013 5:29 pm
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I've never tried it, but I like Bill Dearmore's idea of using a tunable split on the 4th string with the C pedal and E lower lever. Seems to me that you could use it to dial in that pesky F note just for the augmented chord, using B+C+E.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 26 May 2013 7:28 pm
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| Dickie Whitley wrote: |
| ....but Mike, you don't have a black guitar do you? |
Not yet, but I'm saving up for a can of spray paint.
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I have the split on the 4h string, but I use it with the B and C pedals to get the major 7th on a minor chord with he 6th string as the root, for the song Harlem Nocturne. I can get the same chord with the A,B, and F raises, but it's much smoother this way.
It never occurred to me to use this combination to get an augmented chord.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 26 May 2013 7:55 pm
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| Maybe the great Jethro Bodine could find 3 numbers less than 400 (cents) that add up to 1200 (cents). |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 27 May 2013 4:55 am
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Them double-naught spies are known to be tricky when it comes to cipherin'.
But...on the serious side:
| Quote: |
| I don't think being in tune is a triviality. I refuse to tune my F lever down 28 cents (Emmons) That's over a quarter of a fret. |
I try to tune to where it sounds good, both with myself, and with the other instruments. I really don't give a squat what the numbers are on some meter.  |
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Dickie Whitley
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Posted 27 May 2013 8:45 am
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| I really do love and appreciate these discussions on alternate ways of finding chords other than the "usual" locations (like the ones Jeff has in his E9th Chord Dictionary DVD). I believe Jeff taught that as a way of getting his students to know the chord positions without getting overly technical and complex. I think it a good thing to have alternate paths of getting to the same thing without necessarily have to add new knees or pedals. Thanks guys! |
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Will Cowell
From:
Cambridgeshire, UK
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Posted 27 May 2013 1:32 pm
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Peter, I'm pretty sure what you describe does not produce an augmented 7th chord.
The word "augmented" refers to the fifth. Every incarnation of the augmented I know has the fifth raised a semitone.
What you describe produces a seventh with a flatted fifth, or a minor sixth - they are synonyms - or rather, different names, same notes.
More learned players would be welcome to weigh in on this one.
_________________
Williams 700 series keyless U12,
Sierra keyless U14, Eezzee-Slide & BJS bars
Moth-eaten old Marshall 150 combo
Roland Cube 80XL, Peterson Strobo+HD,
EarthQuaker Despatch Master for reverb / delay |
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