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Topic: Steel Guitar wanna-be's................ |
Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 21 Apr 2013 6:56 pm |
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I've worked and lived around musicians most of my long, teetering life..... And steel guitar wanna-be's have proven to be real standouts in my way of thinking.
Is it the caliber of individual that is attracted to this beautiful instrument.........or is it somehow the instrument itself that creates this phenomenon?
While teaching student pilots and/or the more advanced students going for commercial or instrument ratings.......there were very few individuals that would approach me about flying with a heavy emphasis on skipping over all of the preliminary stuff, like stalls, side/forward slips, cross-wind landings, etc.
Same thing in teaching commercial drivers of 18-wheelers and/or coaches. They'd insist on getting right down to the basics so they wouldn't be caught on the wrong foot while thousands of miles from home or the company shop. Things like reading roadside signs is essential if you want to avoid driving a 13.6 foot high trailer under a 11.8 foot overhead.
But, simply by watching the posts on YOU TUBE by a host of students of steel guitar, one can readily see the obvious lack of basics most of them demonstrate. More frightening, a lot of these guys are giving 'instruction' to the unsuspecting, unknowing.........
Incorrect arm/hand placement, stiff arm slants, uncomfortable or unreal picking techniques, etc.
What happened to the students of olden days that wanted to learn and acquire knowledge as soon as possible while developing the required skills in order to be good enough to play on the Grand Ole Opry?
Today, one hears so much talk about finding the cheapest guitar on the market, or the cheapest strings one could find, or inventing some new approach to playing after only two or three works of self home study?
Do you suppose this has an adverse affect on how the popularity of pedal steel guitar is sliding? |
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Walter Stettner
From:
Vienna, Austria
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Posted 21 Apr 2013 10:38 pm
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Hi Ray,
This is probably a general problem these days. Nobody has time anymore and nobody wants to invest a lot into old-fashioned things like practicing. Steel guitar is not easy to learn as it requires different ways of thinking (compared to other musical instruments  ) so it is not something that one can do with minimal effort.
I remember a guy approaching me a few years ago, with the desire to learn "a few basic things", enough for him to use the steel guitar as a side instrument on two or three songs. He had even bought a cheap used student model and just wanted to know about a few basic slides and AB pedal moves. Sounded like Ron Wood! 
Kind Regards, Walter
_________________
www.lloydgreentribute.com |
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Bill L. Wilson
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 21 Apr 2013 10:47 pm I wanted to be a guitar player.
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| I started out on lap steel in the early 50's, but I wanted to be an electric guitar player. My cousin gave me her old Gretsch arch-top, single-cut away, in 1959. But I didn't start playing pedal steel, until '74. The salesman at McCord Music in Dallas, showed me the I, IV, and V chords, on a brand new MSA pedal steel, and I took it from there. I practiced on that thing night and day, till I figured it out. Same thing with learning to drive an 18wheeler, oil field truck. My boss reached thru the window, while standing on the running board of an old Freight Liner, and said, "push in the clutch." I did, he put it in 1st gear, and said, "now take off" as he jumped off the truck. Every time I would miss a gear, I would pull over and start over, until I quit missing gears. So steel playing and truck driving were things I learned to do, by trial and error. I quit driving a truck years ago, but steel guitar is something I'll stay with till the day I'm pushing up daisies. Hopefully that's aways off. |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 22 Apr 2013 12:26 am
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What surprises me is that some of these guys do not hear how bad they sound.
A couple of months ago I went to a concert with a country "inspired" theme. The lead guitarist (50+) played a Strat and did so very well indeed.
But then he picked up a lap steel... Not a single note in tune for the rest of the evening, but he was still grinning proudly, just like before. I almost had to walk out. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 22 Apr 2013 4:28 am
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hey..I'm a wanna be..
I wanna be much better than I am...! 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 22 Apr 2013 4:40 am
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| Being out of tune or exhibiting poor intonation in live performances is bad enough, but hit recordings from major studios? Two glaring examples that stick in my mind: The steel parts on 'Wild Nights' by Van Morrison and 'All I Want To Do Is Have Some Fun' by Sheryl Crow. What were those recording engineers thinking! |
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 22 Apr 2013 5:20 am
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I think on youtube you can bring up horrid examples of playing regardless of the instrument. Kids start playing, it sounds good to them, they share with friends. Some get better, some stop playing.
I think the proliferation of steel videos on youtube is a good thing: it shows that the popularity for at least things like "lap steel" is increasing.
We can all complain about the other guy and their lack of knowledge and basics, but whom among us is so knowledgable that they feel comfortable dissing other players. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 22 Apr 2013 5:37 am
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The only solution is to get a camera and show us how it's done.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 22 Apr 2013 5:40 am
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| Quote: |
The only solution is to get a camera and show us how it's done.
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I for one would love to see some of Ray's playing. |
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Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2013 5:48 am
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I see your points, Ray, but regarding inexpensive instruments, you have to remember not all of us had the opportunity to order a new quad Bigsby, let alone for $800 or so.
_________________
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe. |
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Billy McCombs
From:
Bakersfield California, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2013 6:07 am
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http://youtu.be/uM-3UlTmjOU Ray on his Emmons D10 PP.
_________________
78 Emmons PP,Great tone.82 Emmons SKH #56 |
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Bob Blair
From:
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 22 Apr 2013 6:13 am
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| There is no new phenomenon, and certainly nothing that is unique to steel guitar. People who have nothing better to do with their computer than sitting around finding people to diss ought to find something positive to do - Mike Neer's suggestion is right on. |
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Howard Steinberg
From:
St. Petersburg, Florida , USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2013 6:48 am
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I find it interesting how many steel players also fly. A fellow player describes playing pedal steel to be the equivalent of flying a helicopter while eating soup. (A little off topic)
_________________
Justice Pro Lite (4-5), Justice D-10 (8-5)x2 , Quilter Steelaire, Hilton Pedal, BJ's bar. |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 22 Apr 2013 7:18 am
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Ray has 46 videos on YouTube that prove he knows what he's talkin about.
I'm not sure the problem he asked about (unskilled players sounding bad, and sharing it without realizing the problem) is a new thing.
People are proud of their accomplishments and want to share, even if they shouldn't yet.
What is new is YouTube and similar technology.
In the past the newbie would just show their friends, and maybe pass out a few tapes. Not anymore.
Today the whole world is watching. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 22 Apr 2013 7:33 am
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| Joey Ace wrote: |
Ray has 46 videos on YouTube that prove he knows what he's talkin about.
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That's not the point, Joey. Make a video that attempts to address the problems that he sees. It may help someone. Call it "Steel Guitar Technique" and then show the proper technique.
But the truth is, you get what you pay for. Much of the free stuff on YT isn't worth much more than that--some of it is.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Jim Hartley
From:
SC/TN
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Posted 22 Apr 2013 7:36 am
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| I'm not sure, but maybe the reason the new steel player would skip the basics, and the student truck driver or pilot may not, is that as far as I can remember, nobody has ever killed themselves playing steel. I've heard some bad wrecks, but no fatalities. |
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Peter Nylund
From:
Finland
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Posted 22 Apr 2013 7:54 am
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Wannabe steel guitarist ? I'm guilty
_________________
I know my playing is a bit pitchy, but at least my tone sucks |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 22 Apr 2013 7:57 am
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I've seen many an inexperienced player "teaching" others how to play incorrectly.
In the Land of the Blind, the one-eyed man is king.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2013 8:30 am
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| Herb Steiner wrote: |
I've seen many an inexperienced player "teaching" others how to play incorrectly.
In the Land of the Blind, the one-eyed man is king. |
thats how i see the whole YouTube phenom - if you dont know anything - then anyone with knowledge can "teach" you something. I remember when i started steel, everything was absorbed - it was a while til i found a real player to fix everything i had figured out myself. luckily, i was around good, older musicians my whole life who could play, but many people aren't or dont seek these folks out - i always did.
the main problem, as i see it, is the lack of a proper pedagogy in steel guitar. Jeff Newman, Jerry Byrd, and recently Joe Wright have come close, but they all have a lot of people throwing stones at them for their dogmatic methods - and within that set, you get 3 very different "this is how you do it" systems. So, that leaves the beginner with more questions than answers - they seek to absorb everything with the hopes something works.
plus, these days, someone picking up the steel might have little interest in learning the classic country method of instruction - they are forced to cut their own path in a way.
a little side story that relates to this topic - my mom always wanted to play piano, so after my dad passed, she got one and started taking lessons from a respected teacher and made remarkable progress. I was so proud and really amazed at how fast she was coming along musically. well, this weekend, she was telling me how she was going to leave her teacher because now she is being "unfairly" disciplined on her poor technique. In the teachers view, she is past the hand-holding, gold star phase and now in her 3rd year should be corrected and pushed more. My mom just wants to play the piano, not be a concert classical pianist.... i try to stay out of the mix as i see both sides of the issue. a lot of people just want to play for their own enjoyment. period.
_________________
'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 22 Apr 2013 8:46 am I don't understand how.....................
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You know, when I started this post, I realized that there would be a few mentally deranged individuals that would rush to the front of the line in order for no other reason than to be the first to flame me. So be it. You've gone on record 'dissing me' my making a generic topic a personal issue with which you obviously feel obliged to speak.
I still feel the point was valid and I'm grateful to those of you that feel the 'point made' has a true and worthwhile message.
I certainly "dissed no one"......nor was I attempting to inflict my way of doing anything on anyone. There was no self-promotion whatsoever contained in my post.
What I intended to have happen, did happen, and I do most sincerely appreciate those of you that elected to participate in this thread in a meaningful manner. Your comments wee timely and of value, I'm certain.
THANK YOU......... |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 22 Apr 2013 8:50 am
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As usual, Ray, you take the replies in the wrong way. 
Some of us would really LOVE for you to show how it's done. Don't be so sensitive.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 22 Apr 2013 8:52 am
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Shortcuts....
Just ask the fellas at the Nuclear Materials plant that took shortcuts mixing some radioactive fluids and decided the JNRC authorized procedure was too lengthy and involved.
When the container started foaming over and the intense blue light filled the room... (as in the mixture went pop-critical).
There is a reason for the basic (some call them "baby") steps
_________________
Lawyers are done: Emmons SD-10, 3 Dekleys including a D10, NV400, and lots of effects units to cover my clams... |
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 22 Apr 2013 9:10 am
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"I realized that there would be a few mentally deranged individuals "
Oh, please. |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 22 Apr 2013 9:27 am
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| Quote: |
| Do you suppose this has an adverse affect on how the popularity of pedal steel guitar is sliding? |
No. At least over here, no matter how good you play noone is really interested. Maybe in Finland, Norway, UK, Holland they will get it.
On the other hand I think your post is quite unspecific. Who do you mean? If you're talking about the younger Forum members who made tuition vids, putting in great efforts, this could be quite hurtful.
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Jack Mitchell
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2013 9:20 pm Wanna be
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I am a deranged wanna-be steel player who is working really hard to learn this complicated instrument. I was apparently misled into thinking guys like Buddy Emmons and Paul Franklin were the benchmarks.Somehow I missed your name in the list of legends I should aspire to play like.
I never heard of you. Maybe steel guitar wanna be players could do without blowhard wanna be legends. |
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