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Topic: 4th pedal on E9? |
Don Ricketson
From:
Llano, Texas
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Posted 16 Apr 2013 6:48 am |
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What are you single neck guys doing with the 4th pedal on E9th 
_________________
GFI D10-8/6 Black/Red
Zum Encore 4/5 Red
Justice ProLite 3/4 Black
2-Nashville 112
"Making The Stars Shine" |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 16 Apr 2013 7:07 am
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My choice is the Isaacs pedal (raising 5 a step and 6 a half-step). Great for a 4 chord with a 5 in the bass (strings 10,6,5,4), as well as a useful major seven chord over strings 6,5,4 and 3.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 16 Apr 2013 7:51 am
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I lower 5,6 and 10..on the far left position..sometimes referred to as the Zero position..also known as the Franklin Pedal
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Larry Allen
From:
Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii
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Posted 16 Apr 2013 8:18 am pedal 4
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I raise 7,2,1 for a full major chord. Larry
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Excel steels & Peavey amps,Old Chevys & Motorcycles & Women on the Trashy Side |
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Chris Brooks
From:
Providence, Rhode Island
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Posted 16 Apr 2013 8:26 am
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I'm with Tony.
Chris |
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Jack Copp
From:
Los Banos, California
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Posted 16 Apr 2013 2:58 pm
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| That is my C-pedal, raising 4th,5th, and 8th strings. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 16 Apr 2013 3:48 pm
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I liked what Tommy White did for the fourth pedal on E9; raise 1 a full tone and raise 2 a half tone. I put it on my guitar and I use it often.
Last edited by Paul Sutherland on 16 Apr 2013 7:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Don Ricketson
From:
Llano, Texas
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Posted 16 Apr 2013 7:00 pm
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Wow...I didn't know there were so many combinations. Didn't Ralph Mooney just raise the forth string only with an extra pedal with the A&B already engaged back in the 8 string days to get that snappy sound Actually that would have been the 1st string back in them days I guess  .
_________________
GFI D10-8/6 Black/Red
Zum Encore 4/5 Red
Justice ProLite 3/4 Black
2-Nashville 112
"Making The Stars Shine"
Last edited by Don Ricketson on 21 Apr 2013 10:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Chris Brooks
From:
Providence, Rhode Island
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Posted 17 Apr 2013 4:24 am
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Paul, that's a nice change too. I have that on a (2nd) LKL lever.
Chris |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 17 Apr 2013 4:44 am
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Mike Sigler recently explained a change he's been using that get's a C6 tuning on E9
raises strings 567 a half tone & lowers string 9 a whole tone
it's on a fifth pedal but could be a fourth too
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=242592 |
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Marc Friedland
From:
Fort Collins, CO
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Posted 17 Apr 2013 2:49 pm
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Don,
I have a 4th pedal on one of my two Carter S10 E9 guitars.
I use it for raising the 4th & 8th strings a whole step, E to F#.
Yes, there are other ways to accomplish this, but this has worked well for me and I’ve never been sorry that I did it. I can explain how I decided I wanted it, but it’s a long not-so-interesting story I don’t have time for right now, so that’s all I have to say about that…
-- Marc |
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Joe Miraglia
From:
Jamestown N.Y.
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Posted 21 Apr 2013 9:55 am
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| Roger Rettig wrote: |
| My choice is the Isaacs pedal (raising 5 a step and 6 a half-step). Great for a 4 chord with a 5 in the bass (strings 10,6,5,4), as well as a useful major seven chord over strings 6,5,4 and 3. |
I also have that on my 4th. pedal but added a 5th. pedal that works with it. 4 and 5 giving a E6th.
Note-- I tune my 9th. string open C# |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 21 Apr 2013 11:47 am
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You shouldn't just single out S10 players. Many of us D10 players devote the 4th pedal to the E9th neck. I currently hav it lower my 5th string B to Bb with a split for use with the A pedal (which is the pedal to he left of what you are calling P4, as I play the Day setup. So I can get the Bb on the pedal (never liked it on the knee lever, and also combine it with my 3rd pedal (A pedal) to get the split C note.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 21 Apr 2013 5:03 pm
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Yes, Richard - I'm a D-10 player but I answered anyway!  My 4th pedal does double duty and also raises my As to Bs on C6th.
Joe - that's interesting! Something for me to think about. I'm sure my C6th pedal five could easily accommodate those changes on E9....
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Joe Goldmark
From:
San Francisco, CA 94131
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Posted 21 Apr 2013 7:07 pm
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I also do what Paul S. does (raise string one a whole step, string 2 a 1/2 step). I kind of think it would be even better on a KL, but I didn't want to give up any of my KLs or their positioning. As Paul says, it's a great change that everyone should have somewhere.
Joe |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 22 Apr 2013 6:49 pm My 4th Pedal, Strange but cool
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My 4th Pedal, Strange but cool.
I always used that C pedal on E9th to try things out. Some kind of weird!
That is now Pedal 4. Alone is cool for blues licks.
3 & 4 together gives an A6th on the lower strings and D9th on the upper strings.
Kind of fun to fool around with, but it seems whenever I play with other people I forget to try things with that?
2 & 3 together are the standard A & B E9th Pedals.
Add the RKR to 2 & 3 and they are like the B & C on standard E9th.
I've had this basic set up on all my guitars since 1979 as well as the C# second string.
The 9th string I've switched from C# to D often and never decided what I like best.
Pedal 1 new to me is that so called Franklin pedal.
I like it for the unisons on the top 4 strings.
Using 1 & 2 together is C#m and could be good for old style Hawaiian if I played that kind of music, but I don't.
Would like to learn a few of those tunes some time.
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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John Scanlon
From:
Jackson, Mississippi, USA
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Posted 3 Feb 2014 2:02 pm
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Having re-read this thread recently, it got me to thinking about something.
| Roger Rettig wrote: |
| My choice is the Isaacs pedal (raising 5 a step and 6 a half-step). Great for a 4 chord with a 5 in the bass (strings 10,6,5,4) . . . . |
There's two things I don't follow here as to that part of the post -
1) If you have a standard-tuned E9 steel, how would this grip give you a 5 in the bass? Wouldn't your unaltered low 10th string be playing a 2 (or a 9) in the bass? I'd think you'd need string 8 as the low note to achieve a 5 in the bass.
2) Do you not have your A and B pedals set up to "modern" standards (i.e., after the Isaacs change was split into these two pedals)? (I assume at least your Encore is.) Because if you do, and you push them together, doesn't that already give you your 4 chord in this grip (and on everything but string 3), including putting a 5 in the bass on string 8, as I just mentioned?
I may well be missing something. In fact, it's probable. Thanks.
_________________
Click here for the Index to Mickey Adams's YouTube video lessons
Insert impressive gear list here. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 3 Feb 2014 2:23 pm
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John:
I'm talking about playing at the zero position. let's say we're playing in the key of E major - the Isaacs pull gives me a 4 chord on string 6,5 and 4(or an A major) but allows me a B note (a '5th' in E major) on my 10th string. This grip could be thought of as a B 11th chord - very useful in many modern pop music applications.
The key is all important here - you're thinking of the B note as a '2' but that's in the key of A. In E it's a 5th.
On 6-string guitar: play strings 5,4,3,2 and 1 fretted at the second. then change to an open E major chord. Alternate between those two simple chords to get the feeling of that nice substitution for the 5/7th chord.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 3 Feb 2014 3:37 pm
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Roger, in your 6-string guitar analogy, don't you mean strings 5, 4, 3, 2 fretted at the second + the 1st string open? With the 1st string also fretted it's the equivalent of the B & C pedals combination.
I know you play the Day setup. Is your "Isaacs" pedal to the left or the right of your CBA pedals (assuming you have a C pedal)? |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 3 Feb 2014 4:58 pm
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Yes, Brint - that is what I meant; the F# doesn't sound bad but spoils the 11th chord. Thanks! I was rushing as Susie was putting dinner on the table...
My Isaacs is on pedal 4 - my pedals are C,B,A and the Isaacs.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 3 Feb 2014 5:45 pm
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An update. I recently took my 5th pedal and put the 1st string raise to G# and the 2nd string raise to E. I saw where Tommy White did this and figured I would give it a try. I love it there. An explanation about it being on my 5th pedal. I have a zero pedal (which I call P1), #2 is my "C" pedal, #3 is my "B" pedal, #4 is my "A" pedal. That makes P5 my 1st and 2nd string raises. Using it a lot more now. Used to have it on a 2nd LKL.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 3 Feb 2014 7:52 pm Pulling Strings #1 & 2
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Hi Richard,
I put that same pull on my first pedal last summer and love the effect.
Since I play with the second string at C# it make for a wild 3 half tone pull.
I find I really like the two unisons that become available.
Just wish I was a better and more talented player.....*^&$%@
Andy
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Wayne Neal
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 3 Feb 2014 8:19 pm
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My 4th pedal= 5La 6Lf# 9Lc# 10La
Can do some c6th with it and is nice for some slow endings with a 4-5-9 combo. 
_________________
D10 Carter, b-bender Tele, Electric Fiddle & Mandolin, Peavey Stereo Chorus 400 BW1203's, Peavey Special 130 Ken Fox mod BW1203. |
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John Scanlon
From:
Jackson, Mississippi, USA
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Posted 3 Feb 2014 10:21 pm
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I see your point now, Roger. I had read "4 chord with a 5 in the bass" to mean a 5 in the bass of that chord, like a slash chord or a dom. 7 chord denotes, e.g., how the 7 of a G7 played in the key of C is an F (a b7 of the chord), not a Bb (a b7 of the key).
Thanks.
I'm trying to decide what to do with my fourth pedal, and it's between pulling 1 and 2 or dropping 5 and 6 (or just leaving it alone and unhooked for now).
_________________
Click here for the Index to Mickey Adams's YouTube video lessons
Insert impressive gear list here. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 4 Feb 2014 3:26 am
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No problem, John.
I think I read that Buddy Emmons has the same facility (4 chord over 5 in the bass) but he achieves it by raising both 5 and 10 normally but dropping the 10th back down again with a knee-lever.
That was a while ago, though. I always felt a need to be able to do that (piano-players can do anything they want so easily! ) and thought it a weakness of the E9 tuning. It was Dave Robbins who suggested the Isaacs pedal to me many years ago.
So much depends on the music you want to play, of course. This pull wouldn't be a priority for everybody.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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