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Topic: Pedal 4 and its' uses. |
Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2013 11:40 am |
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For you C6 guys it's the pedal that changes the A's to B.
I'm a B6 uni guy so it changes my middle and lower G# to A#.
I see it gives you a major 7th.
You can also use it to form a closely spaced single note scale.
It seems a bit redundant having another pedal, 7, that does the same thing to that middle B.
Any particular lick you couldn't do without if you didn't have it? |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 26 Feb 2013 12:48 pm
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Hi Jim:
I play a U-12 and I have the Jeff Newman setup wher pedal 4 is the Boo Wha pedal that is normally on pedal 8. Jeff mentioned in his U-12 video that the standard pedal 4 isn't used much any more so that is why his setup is 7 pedals rather than 8 pedals.
You are correct that the 7th pedal gives you a maj7th type chord and I use it all the time. Nice tone, however, I never learned to use pedal 7 with pedal 6 ?
What a confusing instrument at times....*L* |
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Frank Freniere
From:
The First Coast
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 26 Feb 2013 4:26 pm
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Some of the old swing cats used it effectively. Tommy Morell used it sweetly, if you have stuff of him before he ditched the pedals
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2013 4:31 pm
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With the Newman set up on universal.. 4th pedal being the boo wa.
Pedals 5&6 together give a diminished and 6&7 together will give an augmented.
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2013 4:33 pm
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Len thanks for the historical note. That makes sense to me. Hmmm.. there is a downtown chord using pedals 6 and 7 together. Can't think of it at the moment. Might be a minor 9th? You gotta hold that Eb lever too of course.
Very cool Frank. It illustrates what I was saying about a closely spaced scale. It never occurred to me to combine with pedal 8 though. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2013 5:25 pm
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Right you are Ken. A minor 9 is an augmented with added 9 on top I believe.
Yeh Lane, I've only heard Tom play live and he was without pedals. I'll check it out. |
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Dave O'Brien
From:
Florida and New Jersey
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Posted 26 Feb 2013 5:40 pm 4th pedal
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you can always remove it -move 1,2 and 3 over, have your legs more comfortable and save a few pounds 
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Dave O'Brien
Emmons D-10, CMI D-10, Fender Deluxe Reverb, PV 112, Fender Pro Reverb
www.myspace.com/daveobrienband |
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Chris Reesor
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 26 Feb 2013 5:58 pm P6 &P7
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On C6, that combo gives Cmin/maj7 on strings 7,6,5,4 with the 9th on string 3 and the 11th on string 2.
With just P7 you've got Amin9 on strings 8,7,6,5,4, with the 11th tone available on string 3.
Fun, huh?
CR.
_________________
Excel Superb U12, MIJ Squier tele, modified Deluxe Reverb RI, Cube 80XL, self built acoustics & mandolins |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2013 5:40 am
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Dave, that's thinking out of the box. I debate the need for all these changes vs having a really versatile copedent. One forgets that comfort and weight should be part of the equation.
Here I am hijacking my own thread....but...
One change I use a lot is lowering my 5th string B to Bb. I'm debating adding a rod to the lower B, 9th string, on my uni.
Has anyone tried that?
Also, I raise my first string, F#, up a whole step to G# like so many of us do.
Has anyone considered raising the lower F#, 7th string, along with it?
What's prompting my inquiries here is I got a new Infinity U12 PSG and am loving it! The action is good enough to consider adding more pulls to include all octaves like an extended E9 does. |
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Rick Schmidt
From:
Prescott AZ, USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2013 9:55 am
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Hey Jim...a lot of guys raise the middle F# to G#...PF and Jay Dee to name a couple.
One thing about also lowering the middle B on your Uni that you might want to keep in mind.... it's a standard E9 thing to do, but it definitely will get in the way of the way your 5th string lower is best intended in B6 mode.
By the way, I saw your Infinity at the AZ show last month, and it is one of the best U12s on the planet!  |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2013 10:29 am
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Hey Rick. I have been raising the top F# to G# and I see this guitar came with raising both.
Indeed the Infinity is great. Tone and response are very PP like yet the action is so good. No hysteresis is wonderful.
I had been looking at used Klines for the last few months but nothing came up that would fit me (Doug L's was too short) I also had trepidation about the narrower string spacing and possible limitations with that changer, although concerning precision, the Kline is one of the best in my book even though a triple raise get's kinda complex.
I e-mailed Frank C who I knew during my pickup mfgr days and asked if he'd consider making a U12. When he said "got one ready to go", I concluded the stars had lined up a little too well not to make the $ plunge.
Many mfgrs are discontinuing the S12, including Frank. They can't leverage the economy of scale - not popular enough they claim even though I see quite a few players here on the forum. |
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 7 Mar 2013 6:32 am
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I'm reviving this conversation, if no one minds:
After months of contemplating it, I switch my U-12 from a coped that requires choosing on or the other tuning to what Lane calls a "unified" coped - basically the same as Jeff Newman's, except the boo-wah is on 7. I have 8 pedals, so I COULD put pedal 4 back in there. I have it now on a second LKL, more central, so if I knew I was going to play all B6, I could lock the E's and shift my leg and still have it. Dunfrettin's version of "Lush Life" is the only tune I currently play that uses it. I sometimes do a 1/2 pedal to get the note, but if my left foot is not already busy, I can get that with pedal 2.
So very few are chiming in with critical needs for it. Lane, you have that change on your pedal 3 (Bb6). Do you use it much? Do you find it critical? It sure does occupy prime real-estate for a little-used pedal, right in the center of the most heavily-used pedals!
If I leave it out, I can either put something else on pedal 8 (currently empty), or shift everything down and create a pedal 0 and try some different E9 changes there.
Thoughts?
Doug
_________________
Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 7 Mar 2013 9:09 am
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I think it's on P5, and I don't use it as often as I could, as I foolishly struck it from my Zum to make room for the White Lever on a P0.
I love the complex sound of squeezing a 6 to a maj7, though. I heard the pedal used to good effect only AFTER I decommissioned it. D'ohh!!
TBH, my uni is on its back in the workshop: I discovered I bent a finger. Now I gotta disassemble it. Grrr.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 7 Mar 2013 9:21 am
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Oops. it's on P6. P3 is the B pedal
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2013 10:12 am
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I have two other ways of getting the maj7 on my uni. flat the Es and only play a few strings in the middle, and, with Es flatted, depress pedal 7 which also gives you me a major9 (but just don't play the 9 note for a maj7).
With this in mind I think I'm going to donate pedal 4 to the E9 mode. I'm thinking I'll set it up like I've had it in the past - lower the G#s to get a minor. In fact I'm not sure why that has never become standard on an E9.
Perhaps it is for extended E9? |
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John Alexander
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Posted 7 Mar 2013 11:10 am
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What makes traditional P4 attractive to me is the availability of chord voicings that use the half-step interval between the B and C open strings.
Frank Carter has mentioned to me a couple of times that Maurice Anderson emphasized the importance of P4. (Although it was not included in the older versions of the Bb6 tuning, there is another way to get the same intervals, by lowering the 3rd and 6th of the Bb6 chord a half step. Plus the most recent version of Reece's copedent posted on the Forum shows he eventually added traditional P4.)
Jim, I too had a chance to admire your Infinity S12 at the Phoenix show. You are indeed the lucky guy 
Last edited by John Alexander on 7 Mar 2013 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike Sweeney
From:
Nashville,TN,USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2013 11:26 am
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Pedals 6 and 7 together gives you a 9#11 chord not an augmented, though it can be substituted for an augmented chord.
Pedal 4 gives you a major 7th chord pedal 7 gives you a major 9.
You can use pedals 4 and 5 together for a pretty inversion of a 13th chord.
_________________
Zumsteel steel guitars, Telonics and Peavey amplifiers, GHS strings. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 7 Mar 2013 12:26 pm
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| Jim Pitman wrote: |
| I have two other ways of getting the maj7 on my uni. flat the Es and only play a few strings in the middle, and, with Es flatted, depress pedal 7 which also gives you me a major9 (but just don't play the 9 note for a maj7). |
To quote Fo'Bro Sinkler, "It's not the note, but how you get it and how you use it."
Shortly after decommissioning my P4, I got Volume 1 of the Time Warp Tophands, 6 which Tommy still played some pedal steel. It was his use of it, particularly on the 8th string, squeezing a 6 in the bass up to a major 7, that made me regret doing so. I think I'd use it on 8 more than on 4, but still use 4 (6 and 10 on the Uni, of course).
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With this in mind I think I'm going to donate pedal 4 to the E9 mode. I'm thinking I'll set it up like I've had it in the past - lower the G#s to get a minor. In fact I'm not sure why that has never become standard on an E9.
Perhaps it is for extended E9? |
For a D-10, I'd advocate putting it to double duty.
For a Uni, it's up to you. I'm keeping it, but my uni has 10&6 or 10&7 and is a mother to rod up
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2013 5:00 pm
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The bend into the maj7...and the half step in the scale riff......oooh, and you can use pedals 4 and 5 together for a pretty inversion of a 13th.
Fellas this is some substance!
I may have to give a couple more week's try.
Yes Rick...the Infinity is a great PSG. The lack of hysteresis, minimal detune, good playabitlity, and the tone. I may not need another PSG ever. |
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