NEW to Pedal Steel... introduce myself!

Christopher Montgomery · From: Louisiana, USA

Hi there,

I believe I've definitely found the right place for advice and insight to the world of pedal steels and am eager to introduce myself and hound y'all for advice! For the last few years I've been more and more drawn pedal steels. I have absolutely no experience playing one, love how intimidating they look and wouldn't know where to start to buy one. I only know what I've read about from places like this forum.

So, from what I know about other instruments: "to each his own", so I would take suggestions as subject to each's preference and opinion.... but value all's opinions.

I'm looking to start with a decent instrument assuming that I will take to it and am determined to get it down. From basic research I'm aware of the "go-to" manufacturer's and models (Emmons, GFI, Sho-Bud, MSA, etc.).

I'm not looking to implement pedal steel into traditional country / country western style music, but more so alt. country / indie music, however, I am looking for traditional sounds. I'm leaning towards a standard, single neck, E9 tuning, 3 pedal-5 knee levers, etc. I have the amps ready to plug something sweet into, namely a vintage Fender Vibrosonic Reverb (original JBL 15"), a Fender Twin Reverb, etc.

I'm very excited to get something in my hands and get started. I am pretty much mentally exhausted having perused the web for pedal steels only to realize I don't even know where to start. I do know that I am not looking to start with "starter" or "student" model.

I'd appreciate any opinions for a newbie and even suggestions on a good model to start with.

Few questions:

• to get a palm pad or not? Is this something more convenient for beginning stages or more appreciated to long term players, long gigs for example? I like the idea of them, but don't know if it is not advisable for a beginner....?

• "Universal" tuning. A friend has recommended that I look into these from a beginner situation to not have limits with chords, scales, etc. (not a player himself, he just did his own research). Would this open up options to grow into or make learning more complicated?

• pickups: I see a lot of acclaim for the George L's E-66 pickups. Are these about as good as it gets (or one of those-to each his own)? I'm looking for clean, warm, full, lush, chimey and all, not exactly a lot of bit and color or plans to be driven.

The MSA "Universal" listed here: http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=240891

... and the GFI Ultra also listed here looks like a mighty good fit to me: http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=239274&highlight=gfi+ultra

Locally, there is a "Carter Pro SD-10 E9" available ($1700).

Although I love vintage gear (all my other instruments considered), I'm thinking I'd prefer to start with a newer Steel set-up, having no experience, I won't be of any use trying to figure out the instrument as well as up-keep, tweeking and replacing parts.

If anyone is interested in tossing F/S offers my way, I'm all ears!

Sorry for the ranting.... I appreciate all feedback and advice.

richard burton · From: Britain

I think that there is more tuition material available for 10 string E9 tuning than 12 string universal (but I could be wrong), so on that basis I would say to get a regular 10 string, E9 tuning, 3 pedals, 4/5 levers modern (all-pull) pedal steel.

Everybody and his dog make these steels, there's nothing to choose between them, so get an affordable model with a good resale value (if it all goes pear-shaped)

Tommy Alexander · From: Friendswood, Texas 77546

Christopher,
YOu can take a look at this picture; don't look at the player.
If you come to Dallas, come by the Rittenberry booth and check us out.
You can also go to the Rittenberry website and then call Gary and he can help you out and give you some imput......

Jim Curtain · From: Phoenix,Arizona, USA

Practice, practice,practice........Then it's time to practice

John Swain · From: Winchester, Va

Welcome to the insanity,Chris. With forty years of hindsight,I'd suggest a pro single neck E9 3 pedal 3+ knee levers.A good used model like that Carter would be perfect!

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Chris,
You have come to a good place. But Louisana is full of good steel guitar players. A lot of them play mostly Cajun music, but many play most any music. Here is one: http://www.martybroussard.net/ Marty is a great player, as are others. Danial Comiers(sp), is an another one. Maybe one of these good fellows will pick up on this thread and offer to let you get up close to there rigs. Nothing like checking out a lot of gear, before you buy. Welcome and good picking...

Here's some steel right close to home... On Rittenberry's I think.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=202301&highlight=

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Here's my 2centsworth...

Pick out a few guitars and then post about your choices before you really buy. That way, you can get input from many players about your final choice. Richard is right about the flood of learning materials and teachers out there for 10-string E9th, it's by far the most played and popular instrument, and would fit in well with your desires for traditional sounds.

Pad or no pad is strictly a personal preference. Buy what you think looks good, as I don't think it really affects anything but "the look" (for someone just starting out).

As far as worrying about a pickup, I feel that's a total waste of time for a beginner. Every manufacturer puts a "standard" pickup on their guitar that they feel will give it the best sound, and there's little reason for a beginner to go second-guessing about their choice. Anyhow, the amp you choose will have far more affect on the sound than the pickup.

Good Luck!

Sam White R.I.P. · From: Coventry, RI 02816

Chris you should check Danial Cormier out as he has a Steel guitar store and has all kinds of equipment and he also Teaches Steel Guitar. I have dealed with him and he is good to work with.
Sam White
_________________
Dynalap lap 8 String Lap Steel Fender frontman 25B speaker changed Boss TU-12H Tuner.Founder and supporter of the Rhode Island Steel Guitar Association Founder of the New England Steel Guitar Association and the Greeneville TN Steel Jams and now founder of the North Carolina Steel Guitar Jams. Honorary member of the Rhode Island Steel Guitar Association,Member of The New England Steel Guitar Association.
Member of the Florida Steel Guitar Club,and member of Mid Atlantic Steel Guitar Association

Skip Edwards · From: LA,CA

I vote for a pad...and a full sized one, at that. I really think having that pad to rest your arm on affects your E9 technique, and for the better. I believe it'll make things easier for you and your right hand.
JMHO...

Derek Duplessie · From: La Jolla CA USA

Hey Christopher,

Not sure where in LA you are, but I play pedal steel for an alt. country band here in New Orleans. Feel free to give me a shout if it turns out you're in my neck of the woods.

derek

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLjFupIsa98
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Williams S-10

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

My opinions:

If you don't get a standard sized single neck, and get one built on a double sized body, get a pad. I think one might have a tendency to want to rest his arm down on the guitar which would probably screw up the angle of the picking hand.

A lot of good advice has already been given. But, one piece of advice I really don't agree with, is to NOT start with a 12 string Universal. If you like the sound of, and might like to explore the C6th tuning, a 12 string Uni might be what you should get, unless you want to plunge into a D10. The big argument that people give is the available learning material is available more for the 10 string E9 (true). But, if you go with a E9/B6 universal, you have everything you need for those E9 courses (and actually, C6th courses as well), though you might have the 9th string (D) removed and that note obtained on a knee lever, which I see as no big deal).

I could never switch to a Uni at this point in my life, as I have too many "additional" knee levers on both my necks that I just wouldn't be able to fit on a 12 string Uni. But, if I was just starting out today, I would have to really seriously consider a Uni.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Chris Templeton · From: The Green Mountain State

Hi and welcome Chris,
there is a wealth of information here and the old forum.
I don't know where you are in LA., butI used to Play at the Club 500 at St. Louis and Bourbon street in New Orleans. It's no longer there, but I used to love to go to Pat Obrian's, nearby, and look at their beautiful fire/water fountain.
Enjoy the forum!
_________________
Excel 3/4 Pedal With An 8 String Hawaiian Neck, Sierra Tapper (10 string with a raised fretboard to fret with fingers), Single neck Fessenden 3/5
"The Tapper" : https://christophertempleton.bandcamp.com/album/the-tapper
Soundcloud Playlist: https://soundcloud.com/bluespruce8:

Christopher Montgomery · From: Louisiana, USA

Thanks for the welcome and feedback! Lots of good direction here.....

Agreed with the "pad" recommendation for right hand support. I wasn't even considering the picking hand, so that makes sense. I've read all replies over and over, so thanks for the input.

Checked out Marty Broussard and Daniel Cormier... both fantastic (although I didn't see Daniel's store / website... looks down).

So, if I was to consider a "Universal" 12 string, can you recommend some good manufactures / models to start?

I am in southeastern Louisiana - live on the Northshore of New Orleans (St. Tammany Parish), so I'm familiar with the N.O. references.

Although this isn't indicative of the music / style I'm playing and starting to record at the moment, here's more of an improve jam (multi-instrument) video-song I made little over a year ago.... built on the challenge of live looping. I've got a home studio in the works and am getting ready to record new and real material. I can hear implementing pedal steel into a good bit of it so wanted to get going on that ASAP....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NerQAGgS-RA

Christopher Montgomery · From: Louisiana, USA

Chris Templeton · From: The Green Mountain State

Before jumping into a PSG with a pad, I would consider a guitar that doesn't have one as it can promote, what I think, are bad habits. I believe hat the pad evolved because strings on the 6th caused shirts and such to get damaged as well as irritation to the forearms. By removing the C6th neck, and all the associated hardware, this lightens the guitar a bunch; A major plus for the active player.
Because the call for C6th is minimal these days (except maybe in Texas and the Southwest), many of the voicings of the C6th can be had on the E9th neck (Buddy's Expedition E9 course is a great example of this) but somewhat lacking in the tone that I prefer with the C6 gauges of strings.
The advantage of not having a C6th neck is a lighter guitar, less srings to buy and change and not damaging clothing or irritating your forearms when playing the outside neck.
I believe your circumstances (weight, costs, location and and interests) play the major part in your decision to get a guitar with a pad.
I suggest you play on both types of guitars, if you can, and make your decision on what feels comfortable for you.
_________________
Excel 3/4 Pedal With An 8 String Hawaiian Neck, Sierra Tapper (10 string with a raised fretboard to fret with fingers), Single neck Fessenden 3/5
"The Tapper" : https://christophertempleton.bandcamp.com/album/the-tapper
Soundcloud Playlist: https://soundcloud.com/bluespruce8:

Ron Page · From: Penn Yan, NY USA

I think Tommy has a good idea. If you can make it to the Dallas show, you'll be able to talk to builders and see their guitars. Even if you buy a used model, you'll be meeting the folks who stand behind them with parts and service.
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HagFan
Emmons Lashley LeGrande II

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

A pad doesn't add that much weight to the guitar, not as much as the hardware for a C6th neck. My concern would be that the weight of the arm may cause the elbow to want to sink down and in doing so, lift the front part of the hand up and make it hard for the palm to lay flat across all the strings when blocking.

Also, I think the pad idea came along for players who wanted a double body and wanted the guitar to feel like their D10. While the C neck string will fray your sleeves, I don't really think that is the reason they replaced the C neck with a pad. I just roll up my sleeves, not because of fraying, but because I wear western style shirts and the snaps at the wrist get caught in the strings. I also don't get any irritation on my arms from the strings. But, I also lay a wash cloth over the bridge and pickup of my C neck in hot places where my arm sweats. This is to keep my sweat off the aluminum bridge and discoloring it, and also to keep from corroding the strings and making them turn black and lose their tone.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Christopher Montgomery · From: Louisiana, USA

One thing I failed to mention was that play a lot of music in Drop-D tuning. I'm not familiar with pedal steel tunings and have always played by ear since I was a kid. Some friends more familiar with tunings (in general) have recommended I consider that when selecting the tuning styles of the steels... Although not steel players themselves, just from general knowledge. That's why one recommended the universal tuning.

Maybe a stupid question, but is there a decent range of flexibility for alt. tunings with pedal steels? No compromise on intonation and all....?

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Human nature being what it is, everybody is going to tell you to get what they personally like. Tunings, brand name, pad vs no pad etc.

This is all totally subjective. What you should do is go the the TSGA show in Dallas next month and look at and try out all the steels on display there, and see which you like the most.

The important thing is that you have at least 3 pedals and 4 or 5 knee levers. You want a guitar you can grow into. It is better to have stuff on your guitar that you don't need than to need stuff that you don't have.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin

Don Drummer · From: West Virginia, USA

Christopher, the precise and fine grained info you have generated has been a help to others. As to your tunings and and such ask yourself this question: Did I ask similar question in the past in regards to the instruments I have mastered?

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Tommy Alexander · From: Friendswood, Texas 77546

Chris,
I think you got got it goin'; all you need is a pedal steel and if you can sing, this is a new concept for country music and a new cd....
Nice going !!!

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Duncan Hodge · From: DeLand, FL USA

Hello Chris,
There are many fine steels available for sale on the Forum at the present time. I'm sure that you will be able to find a great one to meet your needs. Just be prepared for the desire to want to try out a different brand, or vintage soon after you buy your first one. I went through five different steels in my first three years of playing (even bought one, sold it and bought it back again) and would have probably bought one of each brand, if I had hit the lottery during that time. Now, after 10 years of playing, poorly but happily, I have had the same two steels for 7 years, but I still am looking for the last one I'll ever need.
I suppose the point that I am trying to ramble toward is...just buy one, play it, and then get prepared to buy a second one.
Best of luck, Duncan
_________________
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."

Wally Moyers · From: Lubbock, Texas

Chris,

If you make it Dallas you can get a quick education on all the brands and hear some great players too. I will be at the Mullen room, stop by and say hello.. Your already a great musician so you will learn quickly.. I will say that it is very important that you buy a quality instrument.. We all have our own opinions but you will find most everyone to be very willing to help you.

Looking forward to meeting you..

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