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Topic: Which replacement pickup? |
Peter Funk
From:
Germany
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Posted 19 Feb 2013 12:38 am |
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I'm not satisfied with the sound of my Gretsch Electromatic anymore (G5700 series, built in the 1990s).
Because it plays very well, I don't want to get a new lapsteel, but only change the pickup.
Any suggestions for something with a little more high end and sustain?
And in general: What suits a lapsteel better: Single Coil or Humbucker?
Thanks in advance |
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Thomas Ludwig
From:
Augsburg, Germany
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Posted 19 Feb 2013 2:04 am
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Peter,
I use three custom made haeussel pickups in several 6str guitars and lap steel guitars. I like the single coil pickups better. They sound clearer and string separation is better. But there are also good humbuckers.
Speak to the manufacturer, surely they can build a new pickup into the orginal gretsch pickup cover, so the look of the instrument wouldn't change.
http://www.haeussel.com/
http://www.pickupschmiede.com/ |
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Jean-Sebastien Gauthier
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 19 Feb 2013 5:18 am
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| I like single coil Lollar pickups |
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Peter Jacobs
From:
Northern Virginia
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Posted 19 Feb 2013 6:10 am
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Hey, peter -- I guess it depends on what kind of sound you're going for. The suggestions made by Jean-Sebastien and Thomas are good ones. I also recommend Pete Bilftoft at Vintage Vibe (https://www.vintagevibeguitars.com) -- he buolt me a terrific blade style pickup -- kind of a Strat-sized Charlie Christian.
There are tons of small builders out there who can work with you, and as Thomas suggested, could build something into your pickup housing or make something the same size. It looks like a standard "soapbar" P-90 could easily fit into the rout on your steel, but a few measurements should verify that. It's worth sending a few emails to see what's possible.
_________________
Peter
---------
www.splinterville.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@splinterville6278/videos |
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J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 19 Feb 2013 9:05 am
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Yes, I would look to Lollar pickups. The guy is a wizard and is recognized globally as one of the best pup makers ever.
Here is a direct link to his steel guitar pups:
http://www.lollarguitars.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=steel-guitar-pickups
But you should also look through his options for single coil and 'bucker pups. These can be used in steel guitars readily.
I personally use his Supro in my Allen Melbert lap steel and his Special T's in my telecaster.
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
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Posted 19 Feb 2013 9:11 am
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You need to check the dimensions of the existing routing and the pole piece spacing on the pickup. If your lucky and it is P90 sized, then you have some good off the shelf options, both single coil and humbucking.
For reference, a stock P90 cover measures around 1.37” wide x 3.35” long x 0.630” high.
_________________
Some misc pics of my hand crafted steels
Follow me on Facebook here |
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Jerry Recktenwald
From:
Louisville KY
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Posted 19 Feb 2013 6:20 pm
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| Tom you are so so so talanted , and blessed Your guitars are wonderfull. Jerry |
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Peter Funk
From:
Germany
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Posted 20 Feb 2013 12:05 am
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Thank you all for your replies.
Since I'm not very good at electronics and don't know, what exactly to tell a "pickup-builder" what I want, I think it's good, to take a step back:
Shall I go for a single coil or a humbucker? Which are the pros and cons?
Greetings, Peter |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 20 Feb 2013 12:30 am
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Another option is to have Pete Biltoff at Vintage Vibes rewire your pickup to get the sound that you are looking. He can rewire it hot if you want to play rock or blues, or he can rewire it for a cleaner sound for country. The magnet will influence the sound, too. Pete has several varieties of Alnico and he can degauss them to change their intensity.
Is this what your pickup looks like?
You would need to take the pickup out to measure the depth and other dimensions of the cavity as well as the radius of the corners if you were to replace the pickup in.I think it would be a lot easier just sending it out for a rewind.
Jason Lollar is great but according to his site he is too busy to do rewinds (it never hurts to ask- I believe he has rewound some lap steel pickups for members here since that page was posted a year or two ago.)
http://www.lollarguitars.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=pickup-rewinding
Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
Steve Ahola
P.S. Single coil pickups tend to have a clearer sound than humbuckers but they are susceptible to electric noise and hum. Humbuckers are usually louder and with less definition but they do take care of the electrical gremlins.
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
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J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 20 Feb 2013 8:18 am
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Yes I second what Steve says about the nature of 'buckers vs. single coil. Humbuckers do tend to sound a bit muffled whereas single coil are clear and clean and very reactive.
Humbuckers also tend to have a bit of natural compression so they sound more "even". Add a bit of distortion to them and they really shine. Great for rock and blues and clean jazz. Sloppier players will often sound less sloppy through a humbucker set up.
Single coils, which I prefer on the whole, don't have any natural compression -- and because they are clean and clear you can hear every nuance -- even the bad ones! 
They chime wonderfully and have great harmonic overtones, even with distortion. Great for all the genres except for heavy metal. Particularly great for country tho.
Thre are exceptions to all rules of course. The fore mentioned SUPRO made by Jason Lollar sounds exactly like it's fore bearer (the coveted original vintage Supro string-thru double magnet pup format) however, Jason managed to turn it into a humbucker so it's as quiet as a mouse when you're not playing. No hiss or 60hz hum. I am not sure how he did this, but I can attest to how well it works live on stage. It sounds fantastic -- single coil chime and clarity and touch sensitivity in a 'bucker format.
I also have a vintage steel with it's original Supro pup to compare it against. They both sound great but Jason's just can't be beat.
Incidentally Jason does make a replica of the 1.5" Ric Horseshoe. It's a single coil with a completely unique tone. Very throaty.
Ultimately, I would let your preferred genre guide your decision. If you play mostly country you are going to be after a good quality single coil and there are plenty of offerings out there to be had from boutique pickup artists all around the world. You typically get what you pay for too, so if you can spend a bit extra in that direction it is typically worth it.
Have fun with it! I always do!
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 20 Feb 2013 10:39 am
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| J. Wilson wrote: |
| The fore mentioned SUPRO made by Jason Lollar sounds exactly like it's fore bearer (the coveted original vintage Supro string-thru double magnet pup format) however, Jason managed to turn it into a humbucker so it's as quiet as a mouse when you're not playing. No hiss or 60hz hum. I am not sure how he did this, but I can attest to how well it works live on stage. It sounds fantastic -- single coil chime and clarity and touch sensitivity in a 'bucker format. |
The Supro pickup is basically like two pickups wired together like the two coils of a humbucker, however one coil senses the top 3 strings and the other coil senses the bottom 3 strings which accounts for its clear sound.
The combination of the two coils of the Supro pickup is humcanceling but each string is sensed by only one of the coils so it has the clarity of a single coil pickup (not unlike the arrangement of the split pickup on the Fender P bass, the wide-range humbucker on the 197x teles and the G&L MFD Z-Coil Pickups.)
A PAF-style humbucker uses two coils which are RWRP with respect to each other (reverse wound reverse polarity) which is humcancelling and in phase. The two coils in the Supro are reverse wound but of the same magnetic polarity so they are humcanceling but out of phase with each other. That would usually produce a thin whiny sound but since each coil senses only 3 strings that does not apply to the Supro pickup.
| Quote: |
| Incidentally Jason does make a replica of the 1.5" Ric Horseshoe. It's a single coil with a completely unique tone. Very throaty. |
I have a '37 Silver Hawaiian and it is as hum-free as you can get with a single coil pickup. With the coil and wiring surrounded by the metal of the magnet and the metal of body most of the electrical "gremlins" are squelched. Both the Rick Horseshoe and the Supro pickups have the strings going through them (rather than over them)- perhaps that has something to do with their great sound. Or not.
Steve Ahola
P.S. There is technology based on the 1975 Chiliachki patent which uses a large circumference, low resistance dummy coil of a thicker gauge wire to eliminate the hum from single coil pickups without changing the tone. Suhr and Ilitch sell kits to add such a dummy coil to strats (Ilitch also sells kits for teles and LPs with P-90s.)
I have been running my own experiments on dummy coils and single coil lap steels could be a good candidate provided that they have an opaque and removable fretboard. You do need to rout a small channel underneath the fretboard to accommodate the dummy coil which is probably not an option with expensive vintage steels in top-notch condition.
BTW with 38GA magnet wire you can wind the dummy coil yourself (you can make a suitable rig from a pair of $1.99 Harbor Freight bar clamps which can be adjusted for any circumference.)
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
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Jean-Sebastien Gauthier
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 20 Feb 2013 11:10 am
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| I love the tone of the Lollar Chicago pickup a lot but its very noisy. I use an Electro-Harmonix HumDebugger pedal and I have great result! All the noise is remove and the tone don't really change, if you have head-phone and ilsten carefully you can tell the change in tone but in a live situation you really don't. |
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J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 21 Feb 2013 1:32 pm
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Thanks Steve, that is very interesting. It really makes sense now that you explain it. Also, I can look right at the pup itself and see plainly that it is set up three and three -- like the bass pups you mentioned. Cool info!
Regarding the noisy single coils that Jean mentioned and your own explanation on how to cut it down, have you guys heard of the Suhr back plate? Is it the same principle? Could it be adapted for use with p90's / the Lollar Chicago?
I was considering getting the Lollar Chicago...
Here is a demo of the aforementioned backplate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiYNaC7LQtg
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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