Why So Much Oil?

Henry Matthews · From: Texarkana, Ark USA

I've seen guitars and have bought some that were actually dripping oil like an old leaking car. Why do some of you use so much oil? Am I missing something? Everyone of my guitars will just about pass the white glove test. I do oil my changer about once a year but not to the point that it drips. My P/P has very little oil even on the underside and works perfect. If I have something that is binding or dragging, I fix it, oil to me isn't the answer.
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Henry Matthews

D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes.

Michael Hummel · From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Here's my funny story (at least it's funny to me):

I got my first pedal steel in June of 2012, a 1978 Sho~Bud Pro III. Not knowing anything about steels, I placed a call to "Mr. Pedal Steel Canada", Al Brisco. We made an appointment for him to look at the guitar the following week. Meantime he told me to dump a whole bunch of motor oil on the changer and leave it overnight with towels on the floor before changing the strings the next day. I obediently did this.

Next week I showed up at Al's shop and when he took the guitar out of its case and turned it over, a couple of drops of oil spilled out on his arms. He acted really surprised and somewhat confused until I reminded him of what he had asked me to do when I called. Being the gentleman that he is, he assured me everything was fine while he wiped the oil off of his hands.

I've since learned some things about how the guitar works and the subleties of adjustment and repair, and I don't think I'll be just dumping cups of oil down the guitar in the future.

I suppose it's my way of answering your question with, well, some of us just don't know any better!

Cheers,
Mike
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MSA Classic 5+4
Too many 6-strings and amps to list

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

First guitar I worked on at Performance, was one that had been sent in for repairs. Whoever had it used a ton of oil, then switched to Graphite. The guitar was stuck, non-functional!

Craig Schwartz · From: McHenry IL

maybe some pedal steels dont work as smooth as others,
putting the pedal to the metal usually is not the problem,
its those soft touches when you try to make a real clean move on and it doesnt cooperate
like you want it to, and you think your fixing it by temporarily lubing it
again and again til it works, Its no big deal on a cheaper guitar,
there parts arent exact fits anyway,
the expensive ones might have a different story.
Play it like you own it.
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SO MANY LURES, SO LITTLE TIME....

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

My first Emmons PP was dripping oil everywhere when I bought is used. My latest new guitar was bone dry and started to freeze up and squeak and grind everywhere after a few months. Both ends of the spectrum!

Greg

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

When I put together the changer for my guitars, I put two drops of oil in between the scissor pivots. I also oil the axle before assembling the changer on it.

I have also been doing some testing on my own guitar. It sits in my shop in playing position all the time, exposed to wood dust, aluminum dust and buffing dust. Two years ago I oiled the changer with Mobil jet turbine oil - the same as what Mickey Adams recommended. This guitar works and plays as freely as it did the day I oiled it two years ago
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BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/

Henry Matthews · From: Texarkana, Ark USA

Bought an MCI off forum a while back and had to use gunk on my hands from just putting it together. Where the pedals pivot was just dripping with this black gunky looking stuff. The changers were black from oil and not only that, was gunked up with dog and cat hair, ugh. I did a complete tear down and clean up on it. Didn't even oil the pedal bar, just adjusted it where it was smooth. The guitar played great for me for five years. With very little oil. Finally sold it to get a Zum I had found. The Zum was clean. Very Happy

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Henry Matthews

D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes.

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

I think it's just a situation of 20 years or so of oiling in general, it tends to migrate around during travelling...I oil mine every six weeks or so in small doses with a nozzle, it's a road guitar and it plays smooth as butter...I Q-tip the undercarriage every christmas for routine cleaning, if that's routine enough.
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A.K.A Chappy.

Eric Philippsen · From: Central Florida USA

I'm with Henry. Some players go wild with oil and the result is often an ugly, grimy mess.

I apply oil sparingly with a small 2-inch needle-bottle. That lets me put the liquid right to the spot where it's needed.

Of course, every steel needs lubrication. Otherwise problems can occur. Case in point: I just got a used 2009 Zum Hybrid. It had never left the former owner's home. But darn if several raises on the money neck kept coming back flat. I put one or two drops of oil in the fingers for each of those problem children. Voila, problem gone and those strings come back right on the money.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I failed to oil my Zum after I got it new in 90 (Oops, I lost my owner's manual)
In 05 it started having issues regarding not playing in tune because raises would pick up the lowering finger and vice versa.
Bruce's suggestion was a few drops up top on the changer axle and 1 drop at the pivot point on each string. This should be done annually. I saw no need to oil the pin and comb arrangement at the bellcranks is that appeared frictionless due to the loose fit
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

I change strings once a month. There's only one area that I put a little oil at every change. That's on the nutrollers. I check everything else and usually oil the moving parts once a year. I use RemOil with Teflon from Wal-Mart.

Doug Palmer · From: Greensboro, North Carolina, USA

The purpose of drenching the changer is two purpose. As per Ron Lashley Sr., it lubricates the changer and cleans dust/pollen etc. by washing it out. Put newspaper on the floor under the changers and do it a couple of times a year. Wipe the changer top clean before putting your new strings on, as oil will deaden the sound. Don't use a heavy oil, try 3-in-One or a light machine oil. Of course wipe the underside of the changer or you'll get oil on your pants leg.

Doug
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Emmons D-10, ST-10,LD-10 III, NV-112,Fender Deluxe Reverb. Authorized wholesale dealer musicorp.com!

Henry Matthews · From: Texarkana, Ark USA

Doug, just me but I would never ever drench the changer in oil. If it's that bad then do it right, take apart the changer and clean properly or hire someone to do it. Believe it or not, changers that are clean and in good shape need very little oil.
I bought a new Emmons in about 1988 and I ask Ron when and how much to oil guitar. His answer was that if guitar is kept clean and in a clean environment that it was oiled for life except a drop on each changer finger about once a year. Excess oil does two things, lubricate and collect dust.
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Henry Matthews

D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes.

Doug Palmer · From: Greensboro, North Carolina, USA

Henry, I think you are confusing oil and grease. The Emmons Changer Axle is greased permanently. They usually never need to be re-greased. The occasional oiling is to clean the dust between the fingers and spacers.

Doug
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Emmons D-10, ST-10,LD-10 III, NV-112,Fender Deluxe Reverb. Authorized wholesale dealer musicorp.com!

Bob Poole · From: Myrtle Beach SC, USA

Yep,that Rem Oils a pretty good thing is'nt it.Light and does'nt seem to leave any residue.i spray a little on a rag,to wipe down the strings on my Tele.seems to brighten 'em up & they last me a good while.

Eric Philippsen · From: Central Florida USA

Again, I'm with Henry. I gotta say (respectfully disagreeing with Doug) that I, too, would never, ever drench a changer with oil to the extent that newspapers would have to be placed under it to catch the excess. Any changer that needs that amount of oil for cleaning or problem-solving needs to be removed and rebuilt.

I might also make the observation that you don't see newer steels with undercarriages as gummed up as the older ones. That's because "in the old days" all the clubs had smoke in the air which attached itself to everything, including your steel. It wasn't long before your bright shiny linkage was colored nicotine brown. And that gummy residue was a magnet for everything else that was around in the air. Dust, moisture, more smoke, etc.

Nowadays, of course, with fewer people smoking that situation is much less around. As a personal opinion I'm not a fan of legislating healthy behavior but this old codger will grant that I don't miss all that smoke which used to be so thick you could cut it with a knife.

Al Brisco · From: Colborne, ON Canada

I would suggest that there is no 'one right answer' for every situation. So much depends upon such things as the age of the guitar, what playing conditions it has been subjected to, smoky or dusty environments, brand of guitar, etc.

One of the most knowledged builders of pedal steel guitars recommends using #3o weight motor oil, however the amount used has to be judged by the conditions of the guitar.

Back in the day....if your changer was gummed up with grease, dirt, etc., it was recommended to drop lighter fluid or transmission oil through it to clean out the dirt, etc., then lubricate it appropriately.

I have lost a few sales over the years by informing customers to lubricate their guitar, as once they did the lubrication their guitars worked correctly again, & therefore kept their guitar instead of trading it in!

Another reason I suggest a liberal amount of lubrication is that another customer timidly applied a small amount of oil on the changer, only to find that it made the changer stick & jam up. Hence, a more liberal oiling corrected his problem.

This only reinforces that each scenario may have to be treated individually.
Happy Steeling
Al Brisco
Steel Guitars of Canada
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Al Brisco
http://www.steelguitarcanada.com
Serving Steelers with Experience, Expertise, & Selection Since 1979

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I'm with Al, each guitar is different, and different ones need to be treated differently. However, what I've noticed lately is that misadjustment, usually overtuning, causes a problem (like things not returning the way they should) and the player thinks something is sticking and goes first for the oil can...thinking that will solve the problem. Oh Well

Well, a little oil doesn't help the problem, so they add more and more until finally they come to the conclusion that the problem isn't a lack of lubrication.

I've seen players that have been playing 10-20 years, and they've never learned about the problems that overtuning can create. Whoa!

In addition to making the guitar impossible to tune properly, it also can cause accelerated wear and mechanical damage, when taken to extremes.

Learn not to do overtune!

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

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"FROM THEN TIL' NOW"

Craig Schwartz · From: McHenry IL

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

No, overtuning as in "no play in the mechanism"; the tuning nuts are overtightened. In mild cases, this merely pulls the fingers away from the stops causing inaccurate returns. In severe cases, it can cause splitting or stripping of the tuning nuts, excess wear on the parts (due to increased loading), and even bending/distorting of the pulling fingers.

Clete Ritta · From: San Antonio, Texas

If it squeaks, oil it, if it doesn't, leave it be.
Coined from the old adage: "The squeaky wheel gets the grease"

Clete

Mickey Adams · From: Bandera Texas

It would appear that most players are giving in to the idea that "less is better". Most of the newer guitars I see, and players I talk to are much more conscious about WHAT, and HOW MUCH lubricant they put on their guitars...
The Mullen G2, and some other manufacturers offerings are using bearings instead of just nylon bushings at key pivot points. They need VERY little lubricant.
The older Mullen guitars have larger diameter holes in the bell cranks, which contain a nylon bushing, and many players lube these...again...not necessary. If you HAVE to lubricate your guitar heavily to get things to work, its probably time to get it cleaned out, and UP....Its kinda like formatting your hard drive, and installing a new copy of Windows...
Ive had some absolutely violated undercarriages come through my shop...and you've seen the pics..
Bent, I have had GREAT results too with the TURBINE Engine oil....And a quart will last a lifetime...For those of you that would like to find this...heres how you do it...Call any airport FBO (Fixed Base Operation)...you can find one close to you at www.airnav.com. Call them and ask if they sell EXXON 2380, or MobilJet II turbine oil...Go getya a quart.....And if your guitar needs a healthy cleaning...Send her to me!....Believe it or not...this is that beautiful D10 that Dennis Wireman has for sale..!!!!

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ARTIST RELATIONS: MSA GUITARS
2017 MSA LEGEND XL D10, S10, Studio Pro S12 EXE9
Mullen G2, Rittenberry S10, Infinity D10, Zumsteel 8+9
Anderson, Buscarino, Fender, Roman Guitars, Sarno Octal, Revelation Preamps, BJS BARS, Lots of Blackface Fenders!

Bill Ford · From: Graniteville SC Aiken

Mickey,
How about Mobil 1, 5W30, or tri-flow, I put 1 drop on each side of each changer finger, and each bridge roller at every string change.

I bought an S12 with a really gunky changer, after I removed the strings and put tape to protect the finish, I sprayed the changer with carb cleaner and lubed with Mobil 1, never had a problem.

Thanks..BF
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Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!!

Mickey Adams · From: Bandera Texas

I would say NO to all of those. I change strings about every 2 months, and if I put a drop of 5w oil on each finger....in a few years time...It would be a mess....Some players swear by TriFlo though...And the issue isn't whether they are "good" or "effective"...It's whether we want something that heavy on a delicate mechanism, and will it dry out, gunk, coagulate, drip, or worse eventually crystalize...Turbine/Jet Engine oils are very light, synthetic, and work very effectively in small doses!!!.......Works for me!
As for using carb cleaner....absolutely...Spray cleaners are first step for me too, but not with the changer IN the guitar. I usually use this sequence: Remove, degunk (is that a word???lol) with GUN SCRUBBER SPRAY (Wal-Mart), SONIC CLEAN...Lube.....On some guitars Ive had to boil the changers in WATER, SIMPLE GREEN DEGREASER, and then spray them with BREAK-FREE...Anytime water is used such as, sonic cleaning or boiling, I always finish with another solvent that will dry out before lubrication...In EXTREME cases...Ill soak the entire changer in Muriatic Acid+Water....
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ARTIST RELATIONS: MSA GUITARS
2017 MSA LEGEND XL D10, S10, Studio Pro S12 EXE9
Mullen G2, Rittenberry S10, Infinity D10, Zumsteel 8+9
Anderson, Buscarino, Fender, Roman Guitars, Sarno Octal, Revelation Preamps, BJS BARS, Lots of Blackface Fenders!

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