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Topic: Weisenborn tuning ? |
Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 16 Jan 2013 7:44 pm |
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I just picked up a inexpensive Gretsch Dobro and tuned it to open G. I also have a Weisenborn that was tuned to G but the Gretsch sounds funkier.
Any info to change Weisnborn tuning? Maybe C6?
Thanks Lenny |
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Bob Blair
From:
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 16 Jan 2013 8:00 pm
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| My favourite for my weissenborns is a D tuning - (bottom to top) D A D F# A D |
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James Trout
From:
Louisville, KY
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Posted 17 Jan 2013 4:14 am Weissenborn Tuning
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| Bob is right - play the Weissenborn in D - it is a beautiful tuning, and seems well suited to the instrument... |
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Bob Blair
From:
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
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Posted 17 Jan 2013 5:51 am
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The 1-5-1-3-5-1 tuning (low to high) is a favorite of mine because I don't like to have the 3rd on the fifth string and like having the 1 on the first string.
This also gives convenient slant positions in this tuning.
Having the 1-5-1 on the bottom is great for ZZ Top type songs.
If you want to try something different, raise the 3 to 4.
_________________
Excel 3/4 Pedal With An 8 String Hawaiian Neck, Sierra Tapper (10 string with a raised fretboard to fret with fingers), Single neck Fessenden 3/5
"The Tapper" : https://christophertempleton.bandcamp.com/album/the-tapper
Soundcloud Playlist: https://soundcloud.com/bluespruce8: |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 17 Jan 2013 6:26 am
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Most Weissenborn players play unaccompanied, so having the root and fifth on the bottom is a big plus. D is probably the most common tuning, but you could also use variations on that, such as raising the 2nd string from A to B for a Bmi7 tuning (enables some nice dominant sounds), or even the DADGAD tuning, which is more celtic.
Check out Kelly Joe Phelps, too. He played some really nice stuff in D tuning. Dan Schwartz is also a really nice player--he has a group called the Neighborhood Trio. Kevin Brown plays the Bmi7 tuning and it sounds great.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
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Posted 17 Jan 2013 6:55 am
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I used to have an original Weiss from the 20s. Because of it's age, I think I used the D tuning but with E string gauges.
With the newer models, that can hold string tension, I'd go with an E tuning with standard E gauges, unless you like the Dominant 7th approach to hammer-ons, soloing, etc., playing an E chord in a D tuning.
Of course, the D tuning is convenient for tunes in the D, so you don't have to work out of the 10th fret for a D as your "zero position", which is kind of weak for my tastes.
If one is playing with a band, what keys the songs are in, might help dictate what tuning to use.
A steel guitar/ resophonic guitar capo is a thought, but I don't like using them because of the tonal loss when using them.
_________________
Excel 3/4 Pedal With An 8 String Hawaiian Neck, Sierra Tapper (10 string with a raised fretboard to fret with fingers), Single neck Fessenden 3/5
"The Tapper" : https://christophertempleton.bandcamp.com/album/the-tapper
Soundcloud Playlist: https://soundcloud.com/bluespruce8: |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2013 12:37 pm
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Andy-
Your book is ALWAYS my "go to" source for this stuff....but the Weissenborn is way more delicate than solid lap steels, and the whole top section by the bridge started lifting up with strings on even the low end of your recommendations....I'm hoping that the much lighter strings I now have on it will allow GBDGBD to survive....most folks use open D, with a lot less tension than GBDGBD....
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 22 Jan 2013 1:44 pm
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| Every instrument is different as are the construction methods used and relative humidity of the guitar's environment. I had my Bear Creek Weissenborn reinforced for high tunings when it was built but also had the bridge start to lift a few years back from over-humidifying the instrument. The gauges are meant as a general guide so field testing is the only method I know to find what works for you and your instrument. That said, I'm sorry if any of the info in my book led you down a bad path! I use Asher's Acoustic set and am able to get a wide range of tunings out of these strings with no issues. |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2013 8:07 pm
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Andy-
Wasn't your fault! Your chart is pretty much the same recommendation as everywhere else....I lightened a little bit but should have started much lighter - just was new to this whole Weissenborn thing....love the sound, but should have known that it is built differently....all on me!
Your chart is great for every other tuning I've tried from it...thanks!
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 23 Jan 2013 6:47 am
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| Thanks, Steve. |
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Bill Asher
From:
Los Angeles, California, USA
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Posted 23 Jan 2013 9:38 am Weissenborn String gauges
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I do a lot of vintage Weissenborn restorations so string gauges has been something we have had to adjust for depending on the particular instrument.
On original 1920's Weissenborn or Knutsen Hawaiians a lighter gauge is needed because they had a narrow bridge-plate at the time and build quality was a little crude making the top around the bridge less stiff or stable. Though in the end they are amazing designs and great sounding instruments with the right set up. We have also changed the bridge-plates to the more current vintage design when needed with great success.
For that era I recommend standard Light gauge .012-.054 phosphor bronze if using the typical open D tuning. If you want to tune to E major, G Dobro or if you have one with too much top belly you would use a X-Light acoustic set starting with .011 -.052.
Now, Weissenborn's built from the late 1920 - 30's have a redesigned bridge plate with more surface area that helps stabilize the top around the bridge. If you have one and all the braces are in good shape and the top has just a normal bit of lift .013-.056 is fine in D and G dobro tunings. It is worth it to experiment since better tone, feel, and sustain on slide guitars comes from heavier gauge strings. So see what your particular acoustic Hawaiian can handle since they are all going to be a bit different.
If you have a new master-built Weissenborn from one of todays fine luthiers, and there are quite a few out there! We have put an Acoustic Hawaiian set together
in phosphor bronze .014 -.058. (strings made by La Bella usa). With these you can tune to open E major, D major, G Dobro, and G6 Hawaiian and some variations in-between. These work great and are easy to order online. http://www.electrohawaiian.com/strings.html
Ok, for a traditional C6 tuning with a Weissenborn you are dealing with a longer 25" scale where this tuning was typically used on 22.5" short scale lap steels.
I have found this custom set for C6 works great on master-built acoustics and electrics built to a 25" scale.
For new Master builds C6
C E G A C E
.039, .032, .026, .022, .018, .013
For vintage acoustic Weissenborn type guitars use this lighter adjusted set.
C E G A C E
.036, .029, .024, .019, .016, .011
*NOTE always use a wound third string for slide guitar sets.
I hope this helps with getting a safe and sonically inspiring set up on your vintage and modern Weissenborn guitars! Bill Asher |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 23 Jan 2013 1:45 pm
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Bill-
Thanks for the info....I'm playing a Georgeboards Weissenborn-style guitar, Asian, sounds fine but probably not made as well as what you are talking about....maple top, laminate sides...
I got a lot of belly with strings like what you are suggesting.....and also, the standard acoustic set would have dramatically different string tension on each string, which is why I went with slightly heavier high note strings and lower low note strings, to equalize the tension....I'm not sure that is the goal, you probably want the fatter low notes from the low strings, but I was more concerned with lowering the overall tension and figured that uneven tension wouldn't help the belly issue...
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Jim Bates
From:
Alvin, Texas, USA
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Posted 23 Jan 2013 6:50 pm
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I use the EJ42 D'Addarios, but tune it to an F (like the G tuning, but two frets lower. Gives a nice full mellow sound. Great bass from the low F string.
I never got this with the standard G or D tunings on my Pearse Weissenborn. For a smoother sound I use brass finger picks and a red rajah bar - smooth.
Each guitar will be different and you just keep experimenting till you get 'that' sond you want.
Thanx,
Jim |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 24 Jan 2013 12:03 am
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Thanks for all the great info. This week I will tune up to a D or Dmaj7 with a C# on the first string. I have a Benoit Wessemborn that I got from Jim Palenscar and it has banded inlay all over the guitar and brass fret markers. What a beautiful sound and joy to play.
Lenny |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 24 Jan 2013 10:50 am
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Just came across this, on the GoldTone website product descriptions for their Weissenborn-style guitars (note max tension allowed and easy tension calculator):
Warranty Disclaimer
Because of its construction, care must be given to the correct tuning and string gauges to avoid bridge, bracing and neck problems. The strings supplied (.014, .018, .026w, .034w, .044w, .056w) allow G (DGDGBD), D (DADF#AD) and similar tunings. Your Weissenborn will not tolerate any additional excessive tension (such as E tuning (EBEG#BE), Dobro G tuning (GBDGBD or heavier) and will void the warranty. The string tension should be no more than 165lbs at pitch. There are several online string tension calculators available such as this one to determine correct string gauges for any desired tuning.
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 24 Jan 2013 12:18 pm
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| Quote: |
| probably not made as well as what you are talking about. |
You said a mouthfull! Bill Asher, Tony Francis and Bill Hardin. These three luthiers have put in hours and hours of Weissenborn forensics and they understand what makes these guitars tick on the deepest possible level. Like Hauser, D'Angelico, etc., their guitars will be coveted by players long after they are gone. Having Bill Asher give you advice about your Weissenborn is like having Werner Von Braun give you tips on how to tweak your Estes rocket. |
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