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Topic: First Pedal Steel - A few Q's |
Tyler George
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 16 Jan 2013 8:59 am |
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I'm in the process of buying my first pedal steel, and with all the information I'm finding, new questions keep coming up. I play guitar and bass, along with a few other sting instruments, and have had my console steel (early 50's Fender Dual Pro) since about August, but I keep finding more music that pulling me to get a PSG. I'm NOT selling my Dual Pro, I'd just like to have both.
I'm looking to get a D 10 that will last me for many years. I don't want to waste my money on a steel that I'll 'out grow' within a year, and loose money trying to resell it to fund a new one. And I love the sound of C6 pedal steel, so I'm going to get a D 10 to start with, although I'll probably focus on the E9 for a while first.
I have an opportunity to possibly get a 70's MSA Classic within the next few weeks. I love the sound of the original single coils in them, and I hear that they were built really well and they have help up over the years. The only thing is that I believe most are double raise/double lower. I don't think that should be a problem ,but since I don't have one currently and haven't played one I'm not sure. But I keep seeing new steels with triple/triple, or even quad/triple. Will that cause limitations for me now or in the future?
I'd love to have an Emmons LeGrande, Mullen, or Derby (possibly Fessenden but I don't find much about them), but most of those are a little pricey. If I have to I will save up a few more months to get one, but if y'all have any advice for what I should look for or avoid, it'd be greatly appreciated. |
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Bill Moore
From:
Manchester, Michigan
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Posted 16 Jan 2013 9:37 am
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| It sounds like finances are important to you, if that's the case, here's what you need to do: buy a used guitar that's in good mechanical condition. It almost doesn't matter what brand it is, just shop around and find the best deal. If you sell it later, it's possible that you may not get all your money back, but you will lose less compared to a new guitar. If you do stick with playing pedal steel, you will probably end up owning a succession of guitars. If you buy and then sell them and only lose a little money, you aren't losing much. Seems like a lot of new players are looking to buy a guitar that will be their first and last. Usually, it doesn't work out that way. look at it this way, any good, playable, S-10 for less than 1000 is a good deal. Almost any D-10 for under 1400 is a good deal. This assumes there are no mechanical problems. But there are always exceptions. There are a lot of used Sho-Buds around that are just plain worn out. Most older MSAs are OK. Maybe you can find some experienced player that would check out any guitar you are considering. If all that seems like a lot of trouble, maybe consider buying a new Stage One. It's only E9, but that will keep you busy for quite a while. You can easily sell it in a year or two and not loose much at all. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 16 Jan 2013 9:57 am
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With a D10, you can get most, but not all, modern changes on a double, double changer.
What this means is that you have the option to raise and lower the same string to 2 different notes twice ea. direction.
For some of these, there is a method using another device to add more pulls.
I would recommend a more recent build than a 70's MSA though. At least middle 80's and on all-pull pro guitar. These will almost all use at least a triple raise, double lower changer which will give you more options to expand or choices for timing the changes.
In my experience, recent D10 8+5 Mullens or Zums in good repair will give you years of reasonably trouble free use, sound and play great, are time tested and easily expandable to 8 knees if desired. You won't need to upgrade to a better instrument, and probably can get your money back if kept in good condition.
Same with Derby or Fessenden. You should be able to find a good used one of these in the neighborhood of $2.5 to $3K if you look around and often less if you're in the right place at the right time.
Yes, you'll pay a bit more, but I think you'll find it's worth it in the long haul. JMO, of course.
It's just a matter of what you prefer. Everybody is going to tell you theirs is the best, so you have to sort it all out yourself. I would advise you to be patient and do some serious evaluation before deciding.
Maybe run over to Steel Guitar Nashville and try out some different brands. |
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Howard Steinberg
From:
St. Petersburg, Florida , USA
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Posted 21 Jan 2013 5:23 am
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I had a 70's vintage MSA for a few years. These are great guitars that are built like a tank. One thing to look out for is the location of the left knee levers. On many of these guitars they are too far to the right and can be uncomfortable for some.
Carter D-10's show up frequently for under $2k. Triple raise/lower most have 5 or more knee levers. I think these guitars are a great bang for the buck. Good luck!
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Justice Pro Lite (4-5), Justice D-10 (8-5)x2 , Quilter Steelaire, Hilton Pedal, BJ's bar. |
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john widgren
From:
Wilton CT
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Mike Kowalik
From:
San Antonio,Texas
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Posted 21 Jan 2013 5:57 am
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There's a good deal available here on the Forum now....Carter D-10 8x5 with the Premium Edge necks for only $2400.....if I had the extra cash I'd snag it!!
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Cremation is my last shot at having a hot body...... |
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 21 Jan 2013 5:57 am
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Tyler, if I were shopping a D-10 right now at a reasonable price, I would look seriously at this one, for sale here on the forum:http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=238703
2003 Fesseden, 8x7, for $2250. I've never played a Fessenden, but I've never heard anything bad about them (I've never played any steel other than my Zum and a Stage One since I live far from the steel guitar world). That is a lot of guitar for the money! I do think Fessendens are easy to switch the coped on, so you can shift those levers around as you desire.
Doug
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Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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Tyler George
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 21 Jan 2013 8:32 am
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| Thanks for all the responses everyone. I'm going to try and get the MSA this weekend. If it's in the condition that it says it is, it should last me plenty of years. And as much as I'd like to save up and buy a new, higher end guitar, I want to learn to play first and then find a steel that will last a long time (although the MSA should last for years to come). I did see that Fessy D10 for sale now, and if the MSA doesn't work out, the Fessy is next in line. It's just a little out of my price range currently, but hopefully I can work something out if I need to. I'm getting excited to start learning pedal steel, and I'll be posting here more once I get it. |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 21 Jan 2013 11:22 am
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Tyler, have you been to see Bobbe at Steel Guitar Nashville. Check out his showroom. If I lived near gnashville that would be my second home....
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Lawyers are done: Emmons SD-10, 3 Dekleys including a D10, NV400, and lots of effects units to cover my clams... |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 21 Jan 2013 1:05 pm
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| +1 on Bobbe Seymour's Steel Guitar Nashville.Never been there in person,but I've done some business with them online and they've always done right by me.All that said,MSA Classics are a good choice too.They made a lot of Classics,so the price is especially good considering the high quality.The mica MSA's are heavy,but they play and sound good,and they'll stand up to hard use.Reece Anderson(the "A" in MSA) is on this forum and he's one of the nicest guys around. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 21 Jan 2013 4:49 pm
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| Quote: |
| I'm looking to get a D 10 that will last me for many years. I don't want to waste my money on a steel that I'll 'out grow' within a year, and loose money trying to resell it to fund a new one. |
Any decent guitar will last you many, many years. If you want a D10, get an 8+5 and you'll likely be set for about 5-10 years. Money you may lose (if any) on a steel you've played for several years isn't "lost", any more than money you've spent on clothes or a sofa is "lost" when you decide to get new stuff. No inexpensive or mid-range steel is goping to gain a lot of value, and you'll be lucky to even hold your own with any of them, after inflation.
Say you get a steel, and play it only 3 years, then you decide to sell it and - holy smoke - lose $500. Well, that's not really a big deal because all that enjoyment and experience has only cost you about forty-five cents a day.
Is that a good deal, or what? 
I know one player who spent $53,000 ...on a pickup truck, and then pondered over whether or not to buy a USA Deluxe Strat, or save a grand by buying a "standard" (import) model.
Go figure.  |
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Tyler George
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 21 Jan 2013 5:12 pm
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I stopped in Bobbe Seymour's last week and everyone there was very helpful. I talked to Bob Hempker for about half an hour, and Vic Lawson for a bit too. If something used comes through there I'll check it out, otherwise I plan on bringing in my steel there so they can make sure it's set up right.
Donny- It's not that I'm worried about losing some money if I have the steel for several years. I'm trying not t to purchase a low quality steel that will hinder my progress because it wouldn't play right, causing me to sell it in a few months. So I agree with what you're saying, which is why I'm trying to make the right decision in my first steel. And yes, the enjoyment and experience definitely is worth 45 cents a day.  |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 22 Jan 2013 2:01 am
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The double raise double lower changer is really all you will need on a D-10. Triple raise changer are only necessary for a Universal 12 string.
Unless there is something wrong with the MSA, the only problem you'll have with it is the weight. Those old MSA guitars were built like tanks, and weigh just about as much.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 22 Jan 2013 11:20 am
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Aside from the new ones being built over the last five or ten years, I've never enjoyed the sound of MSA guitars. They play well and stay in tune but their tone just doesn't do it for me. Sure guys like Maurice & Chalker sounded fabulous on them , but for me they have never compared well tone-wise, with the Emmons (6), Zum (3), ZB (1), or ShoBuds (3) that I've owned..
The newer ones from the Millennium onwards, are another story. I got to play and listen to several while at the 2008 Dallas show. They sounded amazing. JD and David Wright were two of my favorite performances. Both playing newer MSAs and sounded "killer " |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 22 Jan 2013 2:29 pm
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The older MSA are a different animal than the Emmons and Sho buds of the same era.
Think of a big Gibson Hollow body 6 string, and a Telecaster. That Gibson is never going to sound like a Tele, no matter what you do.
The MSA is like the Gibson. They have their own sound, and if you try to make them sound like an Emmons, you will only succeed in making them sound thin and tinny.
The secret to getting a good sound out of those old MSA guitars is to set the amp to bring out their natural tone. Reece not only doesn't play like the Nashville guys, he doesn't sound like them.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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