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Topic: harmony above or below the melody... |
Andy Henriksen
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 11 Mar 2013 12:37 pm |
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This is realy a music theory question, I suppose, that could probably apply to any instrument, but I'm posting it here cuz lap steel is where it matters to me.
So I'm a noob of about a year's experience.
This webpage was one of the first A-HA moments for me when I discovered it several months ago: http://www.planetgaa.com/C6/C6Harm.html
Now, I'm slowly working through DeWitt Scott's Basic c6 non-pedal steel book.
in the GAA link, basically the premise is a major scale with a harmony a 6th or a 3th lower than the melody. When I play it, it sounds right. It sounds like old school steel! Yay!
And now spending some time with the Scott book, a lot of the fills and runs seem to be less formulaic (or a different formula...or even the opposite formula). A run in C major that goes C+E > D+F > E+G. This sounds nice too.
I naturally think of harmonies from a vocal background, which are often (certainly not always) a 3r, 5th, Oct., etc., above the melody.
Anyway, I'm trying to not over think all this, but I'm finding it all a bit TOO open-ended, to the point that I can't imagine how in the world anyone could ever get to where they could wrap their head around all this, especially in such a way as to be able to incorporate it into on-the-fly inprovization.
Every day that I play, I feel a little more comfortable with the instrument, but it seems like SO far to go to get to the full-on instant fretboard note-knowledge, and knowing that what I'm about to play is going to work in context.
Was there even a question in there?  |
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Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 11 Mar 2013 2:29 pm
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Andy - you're on the right track, but you are over thinking it. Harmony is harmony... There is no "steel guitar harmony" and then other harmony - its all the same. You could sit down with any piano player ( I strongly recommend piano players over guitarist for many reasons) and they can demonstrate / explain what's going on.
In a nutshell, you can go above or below - a minor 6th interval is nothing but a major 3rd "flipped". The 3rd will be a tighter sound and the 6th more open. Then you have 10th's which are even wider. Just depends on the mood you want.
You do need to be able to distinguish maj 3rds from minor and ditto for 6ths.
Forumite Mike Neer had a blog topic on this a few months ago that you should hunt down.
_________________
'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
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Andy Henriksen
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 11 Mar 2013 2:36 pm
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| Jerome Hawkes wrote: |
| Just depends on the mood you want. |
Maybe I just don't know what mood I want!       
I get all the other stuff you said...and have enough understanding of black and white keys...but yeah....just so many options, it makes it seem daunting to work any of it into my playing on the fly!!!! |
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Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 11 Mar 2013 2:47 pm
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You have to give C6 some time to sink in - I agree it's not a tuning that reveals its awesomeness easily. I couldn't get anything out of it for a good year, and that was with a decent understanding of harmony.
Get Doug Beaumiers 25 tunes arranged for lap steel - that really helped open the door - they are easy enough arrangements for a beginner, yet aren't dumbed down like some of the beginner stuff I've seen - in other words, you are playing practical arrangements. After you go through all 25, you'll start to see what's going on.
_________________
'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
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Jean-Sebastien Gauthier
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 11 Mar 2013 4:20 pm
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When you know your 3rd and 6th (2 notes chord) all around the neck its pretty easy and C6 is great for that but it take a lot of time to memorize them all. I suggest you taking it one piece at a time, like take your E and C strings and play all the third in the key of C. If you take these 2 open strings you have a major 3rd, C is the root and E the third.
The C major scale is C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bm. So to play the Dm you slant the bar to have F on the E string and D on the C string. Try to play all the scale on these 2 strings. If you them over a G7 it will sound great. After try changing key, play the F major scale, it sound great over a C7 (myxolidian). I hope it make sens. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 11 Mar 2013 5:29 pm
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My feeling is that I like to try and harmonize a line with every possible interval, just to hear what it sounds like. I get very bored with straight up harmonies. 4ths and 5ths can be fun, too, and even sound sort of out there, if you really want to explore. I especially love major 7ths. 
Besides 3rds and 6ths, I would recommend 10ths, too, which on a 6 string C6 would be harmonizing strings 1 (E) and 6 (C).
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 12 Mar 2013 5:06 am
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99.9 % of the arrangements I've played, seen or written for steel guitar has the melody note as the top note ( highest pitch) ...
Jerry Byrd said many times ... If you are not proficient enough to get the slants right ... Drop one or two of the lower harmony notes .... And just play the melody ...
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| "If you can't make the melody sing ... Adding a bunch of harmony isn't going to help" ... Jerry Byrd |
About the only time I've seen otherwise was on a few Jerry Byrd and Andy Iona arrangements that used the open E as sort of a drone ... While the melody was played under it ...
Disclaimer: I'm not referring to " backing a singer" or "improvising " ... |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 12 Mar 2013 5:30 am
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Harmony above the melody is a lot more common with pedal steel in Country music. Lloyd Green did it a ton.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 12 Mar 2013 11:24 am
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This has always driven me crazy. On the fiddle I often use whichever is playable in the 1st 3 positions. On the steel it oftens sounds much better one way than the other. Sometimes it's not just the position of the harmony notes but their relative volumes that affect the final outcome and allow the melody to dominate. At times if the harmony note below the melody are too muddy or low in pitch, the whole effect is lost.
Greg |
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Jim Newberry
From:
Seattle, Upper Left America
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Posted 12 Mar 2013 11:27 am
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| Rick Aiello wrote: |
| 99.9 % of the arrangements I've played, seen or written for steel guitar has the melody note as the top note ( highest pitch) ... |
That's one of those tidbitskis of knowledge that should have been obvious, but certainly wasn't to me! Thanks AGAIN for the re-think lesson Rick!
_________________
"The Masher of Touch and Tone"
-1950 Fender Dual Pro 8
-1950's Fender Dual Pro 6
-Clinesmith D8
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-~1940 National New Yorker
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Andy Henriksen
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 12 Mar 2013 12:29 pm
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| Rick Aiello wrote: |
99.9 % of the arrangements I've played, seen or written for steel guitar has the melody note as the top note ( highest pitch) ...
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That's been my experience as well just from listening to stuff, but I don't always trust my ears. Thanks for the confirmation!
| Rick Aiello wrote: |
| Disclaimer: I'm not referring to " backing a singer" or "improvising " ... |
This is mostly what I'm doing actually - playing in a band, and trying to support the singer...I think it mostly still applies there as well...maybe 95% instead of 99.9% though?
And thanks to all of you for your thoughts on this.
As a slight aside, I keep hearing everyone say how difficult it is to wrap one's brain around the C6 layout. I come from a regular guitar background - played for geez...18 years? (self taught, mostly, but still...a LOT of time). And after a year of jumping in to C6 steel, I find that I understand the fretboard layout WAY better than I ever did for regular guitar. To me, it's way more intuitive actually. I actaully can almost sort of kind of nearly wing it, and play some riffs that don't sound half bad (sometimes). I never could do that on the regular git for whatever reason. Love this instrument!  |
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