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Topic: Embrace Your Niche |
Bill McCloskey
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Posted 14 Dec 2012 8:16 am |
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all the talk about extending steel guitar into other genres has gotten me thinking that perhaps a better idea is to just embrace the niche status of steel guitar and try and be as good as you can within that niche.
As much as people point to Robert Randolph as a potential savior of the steel guitar, the fact remains that Roberts style is tied to the House of God tradition that he grew up in from a young age. The idea that others who have not grown up in this style would embrace it I find far fetched.
People use steel guitar when they want that old fashioned country sound and that sound is alive in traditional country and gospel groups. The fact that that kind of country is no longer a mass market popular style is just the way it is. Hawaiian used to be incredibly popular but it is no longer a force in popular music. It does live on in niche bands.
Western Swing, hawaiian, and even Sleep Walk are the major topics in the non peddlers forum because the people who are attracted to steel playing usually become attracted through one of those genres.
There are many instruments that are regulated into very niche forms of music: mandolin for bluegrass, bagpipes, etc.
And while there will always be folks like Susan Alcorn and others who are pressing the boundaries, it is more of a novelty than a movement. As much as folks like Jim Coen are investing their own time and money in extending steel to jazz, I just don't see steel guitar ever being a popular instrument in a mainstream jazz setting.
So I say, embrace your niche, give up the idea that steel is ever going to be more popular than it is or gets absorbed into other genres than it does. It is what it is.
Embrace it. |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 14 Dec 2012 8:27 am
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Bill, indeed.  |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 14 Dec 2012 8:35 am
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Someday the steel guitar will have nowhere left to go but into other genres. When musicians with different musical backgrounds start playing the instrument, it will change the trajectory of it.
Personally, I wouldn't be so foolish as to assume anything about someone can do or will be capable of in the future. The right kind of person can do anything he sets his mind to.
Ultimately, it's only music anyway. Pursue your dreams, be the best you you can be and don't care what anyone else thinks (unless that someone else is paying you).
Here is the finest steel playing in a mainstream jazz setting that I've ever heard--Dave Easley with Brian Blade: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLt0jMALz7E
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 14 Dec 2012 9:08 am
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"The right kind of person can do anything he sets his mind to. "
Oh, agreed but we are not talking about individuals, but the likely future of the instrument. There will always be instrumentalists that move beyond. But one or two genre busting virtuosos do not a movement make. |
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Chris Walke
From:
St Charles, IL
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Posted 14 Dec 2012 9:13 am Re: Embrace Your Niche
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| Bill McCloskey wrote: |
As much as people point to Robert Randolph as a potential savior of the steel guitar, the fact remains that Roberts style is tied to the House of God tradition that he grew up in from a young age. The idea that others who have not grown up in this style would embrace it I find far fetched.
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While I wouldn't point to RR as a potential savior of the steel guitar....have you ever been to a RR show? I would say the majority of the audience are post-hippy, fans of funk & jam band genres. And I'd say the fans of gospel and/or sacred steel specifically are in the minority. |
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 14 Dec 2012 9:35 am
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| Chris, I'm sure you are right and forgive me for not being clearer. I was speaking about someone else taking up the instrument who wants to play like Randolph, not his fans. His style is so connected with his upbringing that I don't think many people who did not grow up in that environment would ever have the knowledge to play in that style. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2012 10:31 am
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Amen to that!!! |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 14 Dec 2012 10:39 am
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IMHO the fact that I've never shied away from playing rock or blues has always helped me find gigs. Learning to play non-country styles only adds to a steel player's opportunities. Naturally, most bands with a steel guitarist will also play country and the instrument lends authenticity but if the band plays 50/50 rock / country and the steel player sits on his hands for half the set, the steel player will not be around long. There are many more bands that play a variety of musical styles than strictly country bands. The more folks hear steel guitar in multiple contexts, playing what they consider THEIR music, the more familiar and accepted it will be.
Once a week or so, some 20-something guy or gal will ask about the instrument and show enough interest to come to the stage and ask about it. It always makes my day. Many have been young guitarists and several have asked where to buy one and whether I give lessons.
The future of the instrument doesn't hinge upon people accepting traditional country music so that the steel player can shine. It hinges on more folks hearing sounds they can relate to coming from the instrument.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2012 11:54 am
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The polls here usually show that the largest single group came in through the country-rock movement of the late 60's through mid 70's, followed by traditional country. The country-rock guys then backtracked and learned the earlier styles. But the average guy who picked it up because of Buck Owens and Ray Price is, what, 70 years old now? And the average country-rock guy is 60... the area showing the greatest growth for pedal steel guitar is in the various "alt-" groups, and neither of the above two groups know much of anything about who's doing what there. These threads constantly invoke tunnel vision, proclamations that "so-and-so is dying" without understanding that there are more steel guitars on stages now than at any time since the mid-70's. If you don't LOOK at anything past your own record collection and you haven't bought anything really different in a decade, what's really dying here?
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=208507
When Billy Cooper, Bobbe Seymour and Jim Palenscar all post their goodbye notices, "I can't make a living anymore because nobody's playing steel" then these threads might have weight. But just because nobody want to pay to hear anybody play Buck Owens instrumentals has little to do with anything besides itself. So why aren't all the young players here on the forum? Maybe they don't like to listen to old people repeat the same patently untrue tunnel vision gripes, day after day, year after year. Maybe they're practicing.... |
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Charles Curtis
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Posted 14 Dec 2012 12:36 pm
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| IMO, when anyone is "good" on just about any musical instrument, then most want to listen. I don't think that the psg will ever leave the entertainment world. It takes practice to master it and other instruments. The only guy that I remember that practiced very little, (and his wife told me that) was Danny Gatton. I can only imagine that he had focused so intently when he was quite young that he has really mastered the guitar, and could do just about anything he wanted to with it. |
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Bob Blair
From:
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 14 Dec 2012 2:03 pm
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| I love a lot of traditional country music, but if "traditional country and gospel" was the niche I was confined to by reason of my instrument I'd probably be playing a different instrument. A lot of us probably feel that we operate within a certain niche, but in my case I see it as my niche and not my instrument's niche. |
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Ron Kirby
From:
Nashville TN
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Posted 15 Dec 2012 5:42 pm
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Bill stated:
"The right kind of person can do anything he sets his mind to. "
Yeap! I agree. |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2012 8:26 pm
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Bill said ....give up the idea that steel is ever going to be more popular than it is ...
Bill, I would agree wholeheartedly to every word you have written, and, I believe, just one "hit" song, outside country, with a steel carrying the hook would change everything.
_________________
Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 15 Dec 2012 9:11 pm
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Bud, I think that theory has already been tested: "Tears in Heaven" was a huge hit for Eric Clapton, with JayDee on steel, but it (as far as I know) did not spawn a load of interest in taking up steel guitar (in contrast to, say, "Teach Your Children", but that really was in the country-ish (country-rock) genre, so it doesn't count).
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 16 Dec 2012 5:07 am
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Several thoughts occur. First, as much as I love jazz, and particularly so when it is played well on steel, jazz is itself becoming a music "niche". Think about it: in the 30's and 40's the biggest recording stars were country and Jazz: Jimmy Rogers, Louis Armstrong, Glen Miller, Gene Autry, etc. Now? There are some country stars with pretty good name recognition (Taylor Swift is currently #15 on the charts, Zac Brown at #50). So if Paul Franklin suddenly decided to focus on Jazz (and he can sure play it, as the tracks from the 70's he recently made available prove), his income would go way down and way fewer people would ever hear his music. So, start playing jazz...but do not expect GREATER recognition if you do.
If steel is going to get seriously noticed in new genres, it is probably some genre we have not thought of. Hip hop steel guitar, anyone? Lots of rap/hip-hop/R+B stuff in the top 100. But this ain't the R+B we listened to in the 60's. So, I don't see that happening. More likely it is something that will rise up in the future, with some kid doing new stuff on the steel.
We do have one example of this now. Kid is not the right term...but it probably applied when he first was breaking through: forum brother Robert Randolph. He made Rolling Stone's list of 100 greatest guitarists(although the picture of him shows him playing a 6-string????? Good Grief! No Respect! More on this list to follow).
Now, Robert is interesting: he has one foot in the past (Hendrix, classic blues and R+B) and one foot in the future (taking the pedal steel new places, playing new material). He also is a great showman. Lets face it, watching a pedal steel player, if you do not know how complicated it is, is pretty boring. We generally don't dance around, shake our heads, and I hope no steeler smashes his guitar at the end of the show (although we probably feel like it sometimes!). But watch RR playing: he's moving to the music. He is putting on a show. Elvis should have shown us once and for all that just standing there playing a guitar does not cut it with most in the audience. Watch a kid playing air-guitar: they think you HAVE to do that jive to play! So, give them some jive!
Someone else who I think is a good showman on steel, and he is playing very retro-stuff, is Chris Scruggs. He makes me want to go out and buy a Fender dual pro and learn those Kayton Roberts wild moves!
But back on topic: new genres. I do not think the steel guitar is likely to die. I suspect its use in recording compared to the number of total players far outweighs the 6-string electric. And nothing else really gets that sound... after all, that's why we are all here. I suspect sooner or later some kid will come along who loves the sound, but is into whatever music kids in that future day are listening too, and suddenly it will be big again. Look at the Uke. An obscure, nearly dead instrument (from Hawaii, like the steel).... yet suddenly Bruno Mars, Jason Mraz, and others start playing alternative music on the uke...and ukes are in big time (helped by a low entry fee, no doubt). So, give it time... it will might happen.
Now back to that Rolling Stone list: 100 Greatest Guitarists. Note - it does not say "blues/rock" guitarist. It does not say "in our lifetime" or "since 1950". So, RR came in at 97. Danny Gatton also made it. Buddy Emmons did not. But then NO COUNTRY guitarist made the list. Not Doc Watson. Not Chet Atkins. Other genres? Not Andres Segovia. Not Django Reinhardt. No Montgomery or Benson. So, I would not pay too much attention to the list. Rockers and Rolling Stone still do not realize there are other forms of music besides blues and rock.
Just my thoughts,
Doug
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Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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Riley Hart
From:
South Carolina, USA
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Posted 16 Dec 2012 5:18 am
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More to echo what Mike said;
The traditional genres are still here, but the mass media and the industry are molding (and have been molding)what Americans listen to in terms of popularity. What is there is what is there and it will no doubt continue to evolve, but the creativity that music offers never emerges from top-down mass propagated American music, only from the fringes.
An instrument in it's physical manifestation has very little to do with what style of music is played on it. Perhaps the tunings(and particularly the popular pedal arrangements) are bulit around a pervasive type of melodic sound that seems to have cross-developed along with American music. Also we have a nearly universal stigma associated with the instrument that somehow implies it's usefulness only in particular genres of music, some alive, some dead, and some just smell funny. This is not a result of the instrument or it's implied limitations, but the mass propagation of certain musical styles that historically incorporated it as delivered to the masses.
My points are not coming together as I was hoping, resulting in this ramble, so guess I said my 2 cents worth for now! |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 16 Dec 2012 5:27 am
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The only "jazz" that seems to be commercially viable these days is "adult/contemporary/smooth jazz". Most of the so-called "jazz festivals" are full of such acts, rather than any 'straight ahead' or other sub-genres of jazz. Occasionally they'll include an "old head" but it appears to be more for credibility (or making them the festival's 'honoree') than anything else.
But these smooth jazz festivals draw large crowds, and have their own radio stations, and (I think) are commercially successful. Over the years, guys like Grover Washington Jr., Kenny G., David Sanborn, Larry Carlton, Lee Ritenour and others have had huge careers as instrumentalists (and some still do).
So my question is... could a "smooth jazz steel guitarist" rise into that echelon? You apparently don't have to be either young nor necessarily beautiful to succeed there and there is a ready-made market for that style of music.
I'd be interested in your thoughts, not about whether you "like" or "dislike" smooth jazz, but just about the commercial prospects for a steeler who does like smooth jazz. (And, in case you're wondering, I'm not thinking of myself in this regard, nor anybody in particular.)
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 16 Dec 2012 7:15 am
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To be honest, Jim, I think smooth jazz is also past it's heyday. I would say 80's was the peak, and I liked David Sanborn and some of the others. Perhaps the peak was Kenny G in the 90's, but I never liked his stuff. So, to break out and really draw attention from the masses by playing steel at smooth jazz concerts? I don't think so. But, if someone liked the genre they certainly could distinguish themselves and find a following. If you played a jazz concert near me Jim, I'd be there!
It is interesting the way some forms of music just loses steam. Jazz was THE music form of the first half of the last century. It has not died, but it is sort of just coasting. There will always be fans, always a jazz club or two in any decent city, and plenty of piano bars and other jazz venues. But it is not the dominant music form, and honestly, there is not a lot of really new, creative jazz that I am hearing. But it's influences permeate almost all other music. And there is always room for another good take on a classic number done uniquely (and pedal steel in jazz almost always qualifies as a "unique" interpretation). So I think there is always room for a good jazz musician on steel to find an audience. Earning a living might be tougher!
I think rock is following Jazz. It was the dominant music form of the second half of the last century, but look at that list of Rolling Stone Guitarists: they were mostly from bands of the 60's-80's. So, what is the music of time we are in? It is looking more and more like hip hop. I guess that's why I am listening to old Western Swing, Brazilian and Afro-pop, and your jazz album! Sorry, but hip hop does not move me. But then, guys my age are almost never the ones who determine what music is big at any point in time. I just hope that whatever comes along next will be something I really like...but it better hurry up and get here!
Doug
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Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 16 Dec 2012 8:47 am
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| Quote: |
| So my question is... could a "smooth jazz steel guitarist" rise into that echelon? |
I think yes, and I wish someone would hurry up and do it. There is certainly no shortage of qualified candidates for the job, but time's a-wastin'..  |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 18 Dec 2012 10:18 am
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Somebody said-"Tears in Heaven" was a huge hit for Eric Clapton, with JayDee on steel, but it (as far as I know) did not spawn a load of interest in taking up steel guitar"
To digress - Thats not the point. Tears in Heaven was the hit. NOT the steel part. The steel part was nice. No offense, but it did NOT make the song. The steel and it's melody would carry the song. Like sleepwalk. If there was a rap song or a justin beiber song where the steel was predominate and a big part of the song, not just nice fill, People would be attracted.  Whats making that sound? that sounds familiar. I like that.
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Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 18 Dec 2012 11:04 am
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There's always Daniel Lanois who not only produced a great jazz record featuring steel, he's also featured it on his own recordings as the main instrumental voice.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 21 Dec 2012 12:38 pm
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Speaking of Tears in Heaven, wasn't there two pop versions?
The original release with Jaydee, (and I beg to differ on the point about his melodic lead not being key), and the 2nd release - for those people who don't like the winy sh!t? I say that tongue in cheek of course, but I believe the record industry found it necessary to edit out the steel guitar to interest a wider audience, hence the 2nd version.
I can't say hip hop is not legitimate music either. It is very rhythmically interesting in fact. It just doesn't move me like Douglass says above.
I once told a great horn player I enjoy playing punchy horn lines on the pedal steel and he said sarcastically "you and every Tom, Dick, and Harry". For that fact, I think Bill's post here has legitimacy. There is something to be said for embracing what the instrument is uniquely known for.
On the other hand I think I cultivate "unpopular".
We PSG guys will rule the world. We can do either. |
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Don Drummer
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 22 Dec 2012 2:49 pm
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| The stereotype of PSG being country is quickly fading due in part to its limited use in modern country, and the fact that most young people rarely see the instrument up close. When they see it in the non country context when I play it they are just curious. I don't go out of my way to give a history lesson in the short time I explain what it is and how it works. We're not in the 70's anymore where that might be appropriate. Where I live if you're playing country and have a steel most people know what it is. It's in the non country settings that opened minded people, young and old, have the most curiosity about it. And that's the start to a new age of listeners and players. IMO. |
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Susan Alcorn (deceased)
From:
Baltimore, MD, USA
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Posted 22 Dec 2012 5:48 pm
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Bill, I read your post with interest (especially since you mentioned me by name). My feeling is this - I think every musician should play whatever music speaks to him or her with whatever instrument he or she wants to play. Will the pedal steel guitar always be typecast as a country instrument? Maybe yes, maybe no, and I really don't care. Will the instrument die out? I doubt it - very few instruments go away. The Neanderthals played the flute, and it's still around; people still play the viola de gamba. To my way of thinking, ruminating about the future of our instrument can be a bit of a blind alley.
I play the pedal steel guitar because to my ears, it's the most beautiful and expressive instrument in the world. The steel guitar chose me from the first moment I saw it. As for the music that I play, that's the music that comes from inside of me - nothing more. I'm not trying to start a movement.
We're all unique and different, and that is a beautiful thing, so I'm happy when people are themselves on the instrument we know and love, whatever form that may take.
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www.susanalcorn.net
"So this is how you swim inward. So this is how you flow outwards. So this is how you pray."
- Mary Oliver |
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