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Topic: Another Day, Another Busted Pot Metal Bracket |
Alex Cattaneo
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 24 Nov 2012 10:07 pm |
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Yep, this is why you should steer clear of pot metal Sho-buds.
Anyone sells replacement brackets? I had a spare so I'm ok for now but I still have one bracket that needs to be replaced ASAP.
Last edited by Alex Cattaneo on 24 Nov 2012 10:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2012 10:16 pm
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| Try James Morehead or Michael Yahl. Maybe Bobbe Seymour's Steel Guitar Nashville or Show-Pro. I'm sure among them at least someone will have replacement brackets. |
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Bruce Derr
From:
Lee, New Hampshire, USA
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Alex Cattaneo
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 25 Nov 2012 10:32 am
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| Thanks Bruce! Exactly what I need. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 25 Nov 2012 11:10 am
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steer clear of pot metal sho-buds?......i think not.
very good steels. my thought is that these parts wouldn't even be a problem if the steels were adjusted properly and played with a modicum of sensitivity.
when brackets do break due to heavy handed (kneed) insensitivity, they are easily replaced with non-pot parts ...never to be a problem again. |
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Alex Cattaneo
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 25 Nov 2012 11:31 am
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Wow Chris, what a shrewd diagnosis! These have a well-established reputation for breaking, and have broken on many other people, some I'm sure were very qualified, sensitive and gentle, but you're right, anyone who breaks a pot metal part is either a hopeless clutz or a some unsophisticated brute. Me myself, I beat the crap out of them, and swing my legs as hard as possible, putting all of my punishing 150 lbs into them at full force, because, as you gathered without even knowing me or having heard my playing, I'm terrible at this pedal steel thing. Also, you figured out that my steel was poorly adjusted, but come on, give Al Brisco a chance, he's only been doing this for 40 years!!! He'll figure out some day I'm sure. Maybe you could show him? You seem like the kind of guy who likes to help.
Thank you for your wonderful insight. We'd be lost without your keen advice. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 25 Nov 2012 11:54 am
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Without casting aspersions on anyone who has had a knee bracket break on them (it happened to me too!), I too wanted to respond to the "steer clear" remark.
"Steer clear"? I'd say just replace the risky parts preventively. There's too much good about later Sho-Buds to dismiss them entirely for that flaw. If I'd steered clear of pot-metal Sho-Buds, I'd have missed the rewarding 28 years I've had with my Super Pro after replacing all the knee lever brackets (and knee levers themselves) with aluminum ones. (In recent years I've acquired three other steels of three different more modern brands and I still like the Super Pro best.)
Everyone agrees that the pot metal parts are of poor quality material, and many have experienced or heard of cases where they have broken or worn out unreasonably compared to earlier Sho-Bud parts or the parts on most other steels. While this is true, putting it in perspective: what percentage of all the pot metal parts on all the late-period Sho-Buds have broken or worn out?
Clearly one can say even one is too many, but if most of these parts have served their purposes dependably for 30-35 years, and there is now ready availability of replacements (superior replacements) for any that do fail, the widespread condemnation of "pot-metal guitars" perhaps should not steer the prospective buyer to avoid considering a large pool of steel guitars whose playability, tone, and appearance please a lot of people. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 25 Nov 2012 12:02 pm
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Replace them all. Don't steer away from the pot metal Bud's. They are great guitars except for those knee lever brackets. I have never broken any of the other pot metal parts. Unfortunately, when I had my Super Pro, I did not have internet access (or even a computer for that matter) so I didn't know about aluminum replacement parts. Now I wish I had that guitar back.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 25 Nov 2012 12:13 pm
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alex..thank you for the appreciation of my input. don't be so hard on yourself. you're probably not as abusive as you say. once your sensitivity develops more and you learn to set up your own steel, everything will fall into place, rather than onto the floor.
brint's perspective is right on! |
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Alex Cattaneo
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 25 Nov 2012 1:34 pm
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Brint and Richard,
Point well taken, so let me expand on this; my initial reaction was a bit blunt, I admit.
Of course, replacing the brackets is always an option. But one should either look for Buds with the brackets already replaced, OR factor the cost and hassle of replacing them into the price. And any guitar with pot metal brackets should have a big red flag on them. Of course, anyone who has experience with these guitars knows that, but sellers should ideally be honest and offer full disclosure. Alas, when I bought this LDG, I was the same color as the instrument: green!
The other thing to point out is that not all replacement parts will fit directly. I had to file a bracket, which is a major pain in the %$# when you don't own those kinds of tools, and I also had to file some levers and round out the square corner so the lever would rotate and close. Pedal steel guitars are not standardized the way some other instruments are, and not everyone wants to get into that sort of mechanical activity. I myself would much rather play than repair.
Maybe a national program like "cash for clunkers", where all the bad brackets would exchanged for something else... how about "pot for pot metal"? Or "bourbon for brackets"?
Last edited by Alex Cattaneo on 25 Nov 2012 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 25 Nov 2012 1:49 pm
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My first reaction to breaking one was probably worse than yours. Mine was my LKL (actually, that is the only position I problems with due to the angle in which your knee makes contact with the lever), which lowers my E's to D#. I was on the back of a flat bed truck with a cliff right behind it. The bracket broke and the lever hit the bed of the truck. The bass player was turning around and accidentally kicked it off the back of truck bed and down the side of the mountain. They are probably still sitting on the side of that mountain somewhere. To make things worse, it started raining and we had to cancel the rest of the gig. The combination of the rain and being at night, there was no chance to even consider looking for the lever.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 25 Nov 2012 2:27 pm
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I broke two of those brackets on my Pro 111; the first time it happened I 'robbed' the back neck to keep going (it was, as in Richard's case, the E-D# lever) but next time I realised I couldn't keep doing that.
Ronnie Bennett of Liverpool had some replacements and he came to my rescue. I've always wondered why such a soft material was used for a component that was subjected to so much leverage. That stuff's okay for Dinky Toys but surely not steel guitars???
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Robert Harper
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 25 Nov 2012 7:59 pm I have broken a couple
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I have broken a couple. I don't consider my self rough on a guitar. I think as someone said it has to be the angle they are actuated
_________________
"Oh what a tangled web we weave when we first begin to deceive" Someone Famous |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 25 Nov 2012 9:53 pm
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Right. In the case of LKL, the swing of your knee puts the pressure on the bracket at an angle that is more to the back of the guitar than to the left end. That is where the bracket is the weakest. If you look at all the old Sho~Buds (rack & barrel and 2 hole pullers), the LKL cross shaft was slightly angled to better support the swing angle of your leg. But, those parts never broke.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Cliff Kane
From:
the late great golden state
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Posted 26 Nov 2012 8:40 am
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| I had a Super-Pro era LDG that I broke a knee lever bracket on after about four years of use, after the guitar was already 20+ years old. The 3+/2- changer is cool and the guitar played really easy and sounded good. I broke a pull rod on my Zum after about 2 years, and that guitar was about 10 years younger than the LDG. Pot metal is not a route I would opt for, and I was alway curious what my LDG would have sounded like with aluminum fingers, but parts can fail on any guitar. |
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Michael Hummel
From:
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 26 Nov 2012 8:43 am
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As explained on another thread, I had a problem with my LKL, but it wasn't the bracket. The little plastic connector that joins the rod to the lever actuator split in half when I pressed my leg robustly to the left stop.
I'm going to have a look at the brackets when I get home tonight to see how they are doing (not that I can probably tell if they have gotten weak).
Alex, thanks for posting about your experiences! Maybe I'll be proactive and order some replacements before they start breaking.
Mike
_________________
MSA Classic 5+4
Too many 6-strings and amps to list |
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Alex Cattaneo
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 26 Nov 2012 10:04 am
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| Yes Michael, keep in mind they don't wear out, they just snap. Mine gave up before I even got to the end of the travel! There was hardly any pressure on it and it fell on the floor. I had a spare so within a hour and a half I was up and running again, but this could easily have happened on stage last week-end. I have one more of these that needs to be replaced (LKR) and I'm not going to wait this time. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 26 Nov 2012 11:21 am
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My pot metal Sho-Bud actually had a pot metal roller axle base. The guitar had very little sustain and a very plastic sounding tone to it. What a piece of junk and a waste of my hard earned money. Apparently different models of Sho-Buds had different amounts of pot metal in various places.
Greg |
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Fred Jack
From:
Bastrop, Texas 78602
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Posted 26 Nov 2012 2:14 pm shobud
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| 42 yrs and have not broke one part yet. Maybe tomorrow ??? Alex, did I detect a note of sarcasm in your first post? And, yes I will be pointing this out to my friend Al Briscoe. ha-ha |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 26 Nov 2012 2:53 pm
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I always thought pot metal (monkey metal) was hard and brittle. Is it actually soft?
From wiki;
"Pot metal can be prone to instability over time, as it has a tendency to bend, distort, crack, shatter, and pit with age. The low boiling point of zinc and the fast cooling of the newly-cast part often allow air bubbles to remain within the cast part, weakening the metal. Many of the components of pot metal are susceptible to corrosion from airborne acids and other contaminants," |
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Murray Cooke
From:
Brampton, Ont.Canada
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Posted 26 Nov 2012 3:28 pm
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Hi Alex
Al Brisco sells the part.The guy who set up your steel.I got one a few years back for mine. |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Alex Cattaneo
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 26 Nov 2012 4:16 pm
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| Thank you all, I'm all set thanks to Michael Yahl. Me and Bud had a little falling out (when the lever literally fell out) but we're good now. I'll never say anything negative about Sho-Buds ever, I promise! |
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Fred Jack
From:
Bastrop, Texas 78602
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Posted 26 Nov 2012 6:06 pm shobud
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| Alex, thats a good attitude to have. Seriously! Some has no idea the history that has been recorded using the ShoBud's as well as other makes. Regards, Fred |
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Scott Denniston
From:
Hahns Peak, Colorado, USA
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Posted 26 Nov 2012 8:09 pm
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| I broke one of those on a gig and ran home & grabbed my other steel. The next day I found a machinist to start copying those brakets in steel to be chromed. I hadn't thought about aluminum at the time. Anyway I don't think any of the experts can make general statements about pot metal simply due to the fact that each mold is a little different than the next. One you can bang on for decades & it won't break but the next might snap if you breath on it too hard. Pot metal is cheap crap and never should have been employeed on moving parts of any musical instrument. The Super Pro is a great guitar---once those brackets are replaced. |
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