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Topic: Dumble Steel String Singer for Pedal Steel? |
Gerald Menke
From:
Stormville NY, USA
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Posted 8 Jun 2012 12:32 pm |
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Hey all,
So I have a line on one of these Dumble Steel String Singer amps, only $40,000 and think I might have to jump on it. That is a total lie of course - but I am wondering if any of you all ever had the chance to play steel through one of Howard Dumble's amps, particularly the 100W ones - the one that John Mayer is using these days seems like it would be interesting as to hear his tech talk about it is a super clean machine.
Any of you all from the Santa Cruz area ever have the chance to play through one? Seems there were a few kicking around in the 80s. Wonder what it was like and if perhaps one of the builders out there making clones are making anything that might be cool for rich clean tones - Two Rock/Fuchs/Bludotone.
All right thanks for any replies, don't recall too much talk of Dumbles on the Forum, although I believe David Lindley used to use one - apparently Howard lived near Jackson Browne at one point, it's all starting to make sense...
Gerald |
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Ken Morgan
From:
Midland, Texas, USA
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Posted 8 Jun 2012 2:03 pm
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I've played a tele thru a SSS, and it really is something to behold.
If you are so inclined, Ceriatone amps has a clone, either kit or already assembled, that is (reportedly) a dead ringer for the Dumble. I heaven't heard it, but for you adventurous types, it might be a way to go. If nothing else, get it/build it, and people from all around will surely ask you about it.
_________________
67 Shobud Blue Darling III, scads of pedals and such, more 6 strings than I got room for
Ken Morgan
Midland, TX |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 8 Jun 2012 5:24 pm
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| Don't think he likes to be called Howard anymore. Think he prefers Alexander. By all accounts I've seen, he's a complete ass! Impossible to deal with. If you call him and ask when your amp will be done, he cancels your order. Nice amps though@ |
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Jerry Kippola
From:
UP Michigan, USA
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Posted 8 Jun 2012 6:35 pm
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| I have a Boogie Mk III that I rebuilt into a Dumble overdrive spl. It's the best gtr amp i've ever owned, live for gtr, not really for steel, but i use it in the studio for gtr and lap. |
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Peter Freiberger
From:
California, USA
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Posted 8 Jun 2012 8:02 pm
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| I remember him building those amps years ago out of The Alley rehearsal studio in North Hollywood. I heard they were great guitar amps but you were in for a long wait if they broke down. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 9 Jun 2012 8:26 am
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I don't think Dumbles are known for their clean tones.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Kirk Eipper
From:
Arroyo Grande, Ca.
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Posted 9 Jun 2012 9:29 am
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Jerry, I too have a Mesa Boogie Mk III and would love to Dumble-ize it. What sort of mods are we talking about here?
_________________
'10 Williams 700 Series SD10 4+5/ '71 Emmons S-10 3+4/ '73 Emmons D-10 8+4/ GK MB 200/ Custom Tommy Huff Cabinets/ Webb 614-E/ Steelseat.com Pak-a-seat/ Magnatone and Fender lap steels/ Cobra Coil bars & Strings/ pod 2.0/ Peterson Tuners/Goodrich V.P./ Boss RV5/Teles and Martins
www.kirkeipper.com |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 9 Jun 2012 1:20 pm
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
| I don't think Dumbles are known for their clean tones. |
Most of his amps have clean channels...
the Steel String Singer was designed for clean.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumble_Amplifiers
<start>
Steel String Singer
This model was made in very limited numbers. Power output was usually 100W, although Stevie Ray Vaughan's famous "King Tone Consoul" SSS was rated at 150W. It was a "clean", loud amp with no overdrive section. The standard model used 4 x 7025 high-mu twin triodes; 1 x 5751 high-mu twin triode and 4 x 6L6 power tubes. The amp used a standard Dumble tonestack with an optional two toneswitch tone filter.
<end>
I believe examples are close to six figures now. |
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Jerry Kippola
From:
UP Michigan, USA
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Posted 10 Jun 2012 5:45 am
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The dumble rebuild for a MK III isn't for the faint hearted. I tried half measures to it, which sounded good, but it's not really dumble 'til you do the whole enchilada, not very easy on a mesa motherboard, and i've been workin on this stuff 40 years. A clean build is not hard to do, as now the schemes and voodoo have been unmasked. I've built them and modded fenders, two rocks, demeters, into dumbles. A huge volume of info is avail at ampgarage.com --membership is free and you have to join to get into the dumble stuff. There's pix, schematics, and know how
from a worldwide wealth of info on the dumbles. Also there are modern builders out there like Bludotone, Redplate, Ceriatone, Van Weelden, that build a real sounding d amp. |
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J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
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Posted 10 Jun 2012 9:37 am
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I've looked inside an Overdrive Special, by Dumble, and it looks very similar to a Fender Showman, except for the overdrive circuitry, and the FET input channel.
Transformers, and layout were very Fender looking...Jerry |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 10 Jun 2012 10:05 am
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| J Fletcher wrote: |
I've looked inside an Overdrive Special, by Dumble, and it looks very similar to a Fender Showman, except for the overdrive circuitry, and the FET input channel.
Transformers, and layout were very Fender looking...Jerry |
I went and signed up at ampgarage... there are definitely different periods to Mr. Dumble's work. The older ODS I saw was definitely based on a Fender chassis... the SSS was a completely unique amp, looked more like my Orange Tiny Terror inside (epoxy boards with big holes centered on ceramic sockets). Even in the modded Fenders he's departing from stock in almost every regard... little crazy tweak circuits everywhere.
Looking at the SSS schematic there appear to be lots of balanced preamp tube sections (not just the PI)... this reminds me of McIntosh and Leslie schematics I've seen.
This is not an easy amp to clone. |
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Matthew Dawson
From:
Portland Oregon, USA
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Posted 10 Jun 2012 7:04 pm
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| I'm working on a #124-ish ODS currently. I'll let the forum know how it works out for non-pedal when I get it done. I've gotten some very good non-pedal sounds out of a Rocket-style amp built from the Trainwreck side of Ampgarage. |
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Kirk Eipper
From:
Arroyo Grande, Ca.
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Posted 11 Jun 2012 9:47 am
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Maybe the steel string singer is the way to go as it was built to play loud and clean, right?
_________________
'10 Williams 700 Series SD10 4+5/ '71 Emmons S-10 3+4/ '73 Emmons D-10 8+4/ GK MB 200/ Custom Tommy Huff Cabinets/ Webb 614-E/ Steelseat.com Pak-a-seat/ Magnatone and Fender lap steels/ Cobra Coil bars & Strings/ pod 2.0/ Peterson Tuners/Goodrich V.P./ Boss RV5/Teles and Martins
www.kirkeipper.com |
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Jerry Kippola
From:
UP Michigan, USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2012 11:35 am
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| They'll all play loud and clean. |
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Matthew Dawson
From:
Portland Oregon, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2012 9:21 pm
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I finished the Overdrive Special a couple of days ago. Last night I took it to it's first rehearsal. The clean channel stays clean all the way up to very, very loud. I couldn't get it to break up. All the various eq-shaping switches provide usable, good sounding tone shaping options. The clean tone is mellower to me than a blackface fender but not lacking in sparkle. I've always found the black and silverface Fenders to be OK but ultimately not quite what I want for steel guitar. I never seem to be able to dial them in to a point where I feel totally satisfied. I like the D-style clean a lot better. I can't seem to find a setting I don't like.
The FET input lets you hear a little more definition and articulation in the picking hand. It adds more texture and crispness to the sound while the normal channel seems to be more compressed or glued together for lack of a better term. The Fet gives the preamp more stiffness. It can also be set up for more of a boost but I just use it for tone shaping. Both channels sound very good.
The overdrive on mine reminds me of Duane Allman's in-studio sound, with a twin and fuzz pedal. Way better than any pedal I have ever tried. When I hit the overdrive I can't help but grin!
My amp is based loosely on Dumble #124. It is the best, most versatile amp I could imagine having for non-pedal steel, but I'm still in the honeymoon period with it. So far so good! I'm using EVM12l and 15l speakers. |
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Lynn Kasdorf
From:
Waterford Virginia, USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2012 12:37 pm
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If you have never read the Dumble contract and data sheet, it is quite astounding.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/37140780/Dumble-Contract-and-Data-Sheet
The guy sounds like an egotistical a-hole. I love the part where you agree to never look at the circuit of the amp or sell the amp to someone who will.
He is the amp nazi. "No amp for you!"
_________________
"You call that thing a guitar?" |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 23 Jul 2012 9:24 am
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
| I don't think Dumbles are known for their clean tones. |
The Dumble clean channel is very impressive. As Matthew pointed out no matter how loud you run it there is no breakup like with a Fender BF/SF amp. I rewired the Normal channel of my Pro Reverb as the 1970's ODS clean channel and wrote an article in 1999 with color-coded drawings showing how I did it:
http://www.blueguitar.org/new/articles/blue_gtr/amps/coolnorm.pdf
It was originally titled "Dumble Mod for the Normal Channel" but I had to change the name and rewrite the introduction to protect the innocent (me!  )
Steve Ahola
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
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Lynn Kasdorf
From:
Waterford Virginia, USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2012 10:15 am
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| Steve Ahola wrote: |
| Mike Neer wrote: |
| I don't think Dumbles are known for their clean tones. |
The Dumble clean channel is very impressive. As Matthew pointed out no matter how loud you run it there is no breakup like with a Fender BF/SF amp. I rewired the Normal channel of my Pro Reverb as the 1970's ODS clean channel and wrote an article in 1999 with color-coded drawings showing how I did it:
http://www.blueguitar.org/new/articles/blue_gtr/amps/coolnorm.pdf
It was originally titled "Dumble Mod for the Normal Channel" but I had to change the name and rewrite the introduction to protect the innocent (me! )
Steve Ahola |
Wow- thanks for giving us this mod, Steve.
Doward Humble indeed 
_________________
"You call that thing a guitar?" |
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Patrick Thornhill
From:
Austin Texas, USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2012 5:32 pm
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Really? Really?!?!
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Lynn Kasdorf
From:
Waterford Virginia, USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2012 5:34 pm
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| Patrick Thornhill wrote: |
Really? Really?!?!
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Well, I guess if you REALLY love your dumble enough, you might be tempted to give it a cavity search.
_________________
"You call that thing a guitar?" |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 23 Jul 2012 5:54 pm
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I'm glad to see those sheets still around. There are horror stories I heard in which HAD took payment for an amp, got pissed off at the customer for one reason or another and did not return the money paid. (That is strictly heresay- I do not know such a customer personally.)
Except for his earliest amps he put "goop" on the critical components to conceal the values and the circuitry, in most cases silicon. With each amp being unique if a schematic for a particular amp was reverse engineered he would know which amp it was and who he sold it to. That person would definitely be on his sh*t list so owners were very protective of their amps. However once the amp was sold on the secondary market the new owner signed no contracts with HAD and was free to do as he pleased.
My understanding of ODS #124 is that a group of Dumble fanatics bought the amp used for around $10k in 1999, had it ungooped and then reverse-engineered the design and confirmed all of the values before gooping it back up and reselling it for a profit. That particular design was like the Holy Grail because I think that everybody who copied it has been amazed at the results straight out of the box, so to speak, without the lengthy fine-tuning required with many other schematics.
Steve Ahola
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
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Matthew Dawson
From:
Portland Oregon, USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2012 10:30 pm
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| Quote: |
| That particular design was like the Holy Grail because I think that everybody who copied it has been amazed at the results straight out of the box, so to speak, without the lengthy fine-tuning required with many other schematics. |
Indeed. I finished mine up and after doing a few checks fired it up with a variac expecting that the first start-up would be the beginning of a lengthy trouble-shooting and fine tuning process. The first thing I noticed was that in spite of what seem like miles of cabling inside the amp is dead quiet. Then I discovered that all the switches and knobs worked as they should. Then I took a listen and (to my amazement) everything sounded really, really good with no tweaking at all. I biased the tubes, did a quick adjustment of the phase inverter trimmer and fet trimmer and put it in the cab. I just got back from a second rehearsal and am still very happy with this amp. In a couple of weeks I'll take it back out of the cabinet and try to fine tune the various trimmers a little more and try some different tubes. Right now I have CBS grey-plates in all three pre-amp positions and they sound great. |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 25 Jul 2012 6:23 pm
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| Lynn Kasdorf wrote: |
| Steve Ahola wrote: |
I rewired the Normal channel of my Pro Reverb as the 1970's ODS clean channel and wrote an article in 1999 with color-coded drawings showing how I did it:
http://www.blueguitar.org/new/articles/blue_gtr/amps/coolnorm.pdf
It was originally titled "Dumble Mod for the Normal Channel" but I had to change the name and rewrite the introduction to protect the innocent (me! )
Steve Ahola |
Wow- thanks for giving us this mod, Steve.
Doward Humble indeed |
When Dumble saw the original article and drawings he sent a fax to one of his suppliers who forwarded me a copy:
| H.A. Dumble wrote: |
| However the main thrust of this communication is a perhaps chance quest that you may have some information on a "Steve Ahola". You have a link for him at your website. He's illegally publishing and disseminating copyrighted material owned exclusively by me in the form of schematics and technical information on my amplifiers and devices. He's gone so far as to even pirate my modifications for the older Fender's. |
I came up with those Fender mods myself after studying the schematics which were floating around the internet before I drew them up in TurboCAD. I get the impression that he had modified quite a few Fender amps that were used on quite a few stages- with the audience marveling at the great sound coming from an old Fender amp. (A friend had seen David Lindley playing a Bassman head in the early 80's- I have a hunch that it had been modified by Dumble.)
Steve Ahola
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
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