Second Fret Advantages On The Pedal Steel

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

If a player tunes down a full tone from E9th chromatic to a D9th, the second fret becomes a veritable launching pad for instrumentals. Pedals down produces the popular A chord, and the E chord position in a much more desired location. I wouldn't go back to the E9th for a host of reasons.

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

Bill, unless I've been mistaken for the last 30+ years. Pedals down (pedals A+B) in D9th should yield a G (not A) chord

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

He's talking about the 2nd fret.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Richard,

Thanks! Yes, indeed! And Tony, I'm very much aware of the open "G" chord with pedals A & B depressed. The 2nd fret position offers many visual advantages as well as the rapid chord changes by lifting the bar.

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Are you using heavier strings?
I could see that improving your tone.
Never tried D9

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I used to sit in on a friends steel that was tuned to D9. It was a little darker sounding, but still pretty good sounding. While I don't see an advantage TO ME, many do. Bill's thought about having the E and A positions at the 2nd fret are valid reasons.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Joey,

The two most critical strings on either tuning are namely 3rd and 6th. An .011 will work much better at the 3rd, with the reduced stress, and the 6th is always a touchy tempermental string. A thin wound at the 6th position is a better choice, I have decided after much experimentation. A .014 at the 4th, will handle the full tone raises applied by the "C" pedal of the 9th tuning. I'm advocating a little less stress basically, by utilizing some of the strings recommended for the E9th tuning. Do not exceed .038 wound at the 10th. string. Downward pressure of each string by pressing should be the best assurance that each string will serve to deliver good responses. Strings one through five are as listed: .013, .014, .011, .014, .018 - The 8th and 10th catch the greatest workloads. A .030W is best suited for the constant lowering of the 8th "D" string.
I pull both 4th and 8th strings with knee lever changes.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I do believe my buddy told me he uses regular E9 string sets.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Richard,

A skillful player would sound great on any steel with various 9th tunings that have been properly fitted with various string gauges that conform to the pitch changes. When all the facts are in, the popular E9th may not hold to its promise, and become routed by the so-called D9th lesser tuning.

Archie Nicol R.I.P. · From: Ayrshire, Scotland

Changer to player; "Gimme a break, pal!" Winking

Arch.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Archie,

The main train of thought should be focused as I have written on the advantages of the second fret when the tuning has been lowered one whole tone. Otherwise, a mad scramble may ensue as the guitarists reach for the trusty capos seen dangling from the tuners to distant themselves from the key of "B". Much has been written about the key of "C" in the past. Personally, I favor "A" with a steel tuned to D9th chromatic.

Mark Greenway · From: Lake Kiowa, Texas

Some of us have been discussing this drop tuning on another thread with Ted Solesky. Ted has some great Youtube videos that shows his detuning a half step, to Eflat 9th.

Ted makes this tuning sound really cool. Ted is a cool guy. If you haven't heard him play, listen to this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-g0wCTbsVY

There are a couple of other videos also.

Bo Legg · Posted 27 Jun 2012 2:34 am

I tried tuning down to an A9 so I would have that low E note like the 6 stringer, boy did that ever suck!
I do like the D9 idea but only because it would allow a big A on the top of an open A6 chord by lowering the Ds to C# with a knee lever which normally I would have to play an octave higher.
I like to play a lot of blues licks and C6 sounding riffs (or in this case A6 sounding riffs) in that position of which would sound much better than the thin sound at the higher octave.
The only problem in this case would be if you are using Jeff’s tuning method which would have that big open A tuned 8 cents sharp already and then you throw in a little cabinet increase when you lower the Ds to C# your A6 chord will be noticeably sharp at least 8 cents and on some PSGs and as much as 14 cents and won’t be able to compensate with the bar.
Because I use this position a lot I tune strait up but even so this chord would still sound a little sharp.
For this reason alone I would just drop the tuning to C#9 so that open position chord in this instance be a G#6 chord which with most bands I've played with is very seldom played.
But I fear if I lowered the tuning that far I would get a repeat of the gloomy sound I got lowering to an A9.
So in retrospect I think I’ll just save myself some time and strings and stick with my trusty old E9.

Ransom Beers · Posted 27 Jun 2012 3:01 am

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Not to be thwarted by insignificant hangups associated with mechanical blunders found lurking beneath the pedal steel guitar, the player who remains unruffled goes on to much better musical expressions. In his grasp, any melody can be become awakened by a steady and attentive effort that always leads to listenable qualities. MARK GREENWAY'S suggested video by TED SOLESKY is a fine example of musical expertise. The guitarist made my day! The combined geniuses of BUDDY EMMONS, JIMMY DAY, LLOYD GREEN, and a few others apparently developed the 9th chromatic tuning to where it stands today. Dobroists rely heavily on the second fret, while creating quick changes that are a must in most melody lines. Combining the tuning created by the masters, and LLOYD's introduction of the E-F changes, opened the gates to a field of unlimited possibilities. The second fret's potentialities will conceivably be rooted in class act performances as the instrument moves through different phases of popularity.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Ransom Beers,

Would you care to be more explicit in terms of the "HIPSHOT"? I would enjoy reading about "HIPSHOT" in the first degree as indicated in your response.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Bo Legg,

I do recall reading about you changing your tuning in a trial run to determine the values one might experience with an A9th tuning in an earlier thread. Now you refer to that tuning as "gloomy". One disadvantage associated with how well we adapt to string gauges that are larger in diameter is for certain to be considered. The intricate thinness of plain strings account for the blistering solos made possible, and heard in musical performances by musicians with top billings. I suspect that characteristic functionality helps to draw players to the E9th tuning.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

I too have been pondering this..and may tune down over the next couple of weeks. and fool with it... the idea of having OPEN D and OPEN G ( peds in/out) as well as the fundamental E and A at the 2nd fret opens up all sorts of opportunities for bandstand players where root keys, G,D,E and A are dominant keys. I also like the idea of gritty tone at the bottom...

I guess I would have to play with the D9th for a bit to see if it was actually better or worse overall compared to the E9th...my thinking is if it was better, and understood to be an advantage, we would all already be tuned to D9th !

t..jury's out on this
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Al Miller · From: Waxahachie Texas

If its such a great thing to be able to have open G and open D and more melodic lines out of the second fret then i pose the question WHY!!!? are the Pioneers that invented the 9th tuning NOT! using the tuned down method .. and please dont say because they havent tried it ..i think the overall sound ,feel, instrument performance and who knows what else has outweighed the convienence of having an open G .. if it was such a new found discovery the Tommy White's ,Mike Johnson's , Randell Curry's and Paul Franklins and even Robert Randolph's of today would have already been using it on Hit Records .. now with that being said if its what you like and it makes you play or practice better than get on it .. but i would hope that this thread wouldnt sway a new to the instrument player into not starting with a 50-70 year maybe older, tried and true tuning that 98.1% of the big dogs are still using.. am i missing something ?? maybe paul or one of the others will chime in and give thier thoughts as why they are not tuning down i would like to hear thier thoughts ..
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AL (BOO) Miller
Mullen D10
76 Emmons P/P
2022 65 Emmons Resound P/P D10

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

In regards to timbre, I actually prefer the sound of D9th. I have some E9th-like pedals on my D6th tuning that make it sound like a D9th. You can hear it at b0blee.bandcamp.com/album/cowboy-country-revisited. Listen to "Heartaches For A Dime" and "My Shoes Keep Walkin' Back To You".

It's a little bit mellower than E9th. It's hard to get used to the different key positions if you go back and forth between the two tunings.

That said, I agree with Al that beginners shouldn't get sidetracked into the alternate tunings that some of us fringe old-timers are using. Stick with E9th - it is the standard tuning for the instrument.
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Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Like it or not, musicians like all others are in effect, just mere creatures of habit. It's almost in the the same ranges as "monkey see, monkey do", the only difference essentially would be our superior intellectual qualities. Even so, we all have noted that among humans with varying degrees of intellectual levels of humanistic rationale, bad habits are very difficult to break. There is little need to define those habits, although most assuredly they do exist. I've noticed through the years the reluctances among the general populace to accept as factual any claims made by others denoting improved methodologies associated with lessening work loads in specified endeavors. Knowing how to approach a real problem can make a huge difference in the outcome of the task.

Charles Davidson · From: Phenix City Alabama, USA

Never heard of a [Hipshot] ? I used one on a Tele for years.Great tool and you don't have to destroy a vintage guitar to install like you would with one of those Parsons gadgets. YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.
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Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Charles,

I've heard of a "B" Bender mounted in the strap. As a matter of fact a friend left an expensive FENDER equipped with one for 6 months at my home. I found it to be much to heavy to carry all evening. If [HIPSHOT] is one and the same.. forget about it!

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Hipshot: http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=16

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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video

Al Miller · From: Waxahachie Texas

It's really not a matter of what we like or don't like it's a matter of FACT!! That the pioneers have tried the lower 9th tuning and for what ever reason have not excepted it as they have the E9th tuning . To call Tommy White, Buddy Emmons,Jimmy Day and others I have mentioned creatures of Habit is insulting .. You have got to be in a fantasy world if you really think they play a E9th tuning because of habit or because everyone else does .. No I Play e9th because they do but to deem them boys creatures of habit you have to be high !! I'm just sayin !!
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AL (BOO) Miller
Mullen D10
76 Emmons P/P
2022 65 Emmons Resound P/P D10

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