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Topic: To Dan Simard about slanting |
Don McClellan
From: California/Thailand
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Posted 7 Jun 2012 4:33 pm
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Dan, If you're playing an 8 string steel there is a tuning that requires almost no slanting at all. Its the 8 string Leavitt tuning reconfigured. I call it the Hawaiian Leavitt tuning. It can be done in C6th/A7th but I do it in B6th/G#7th.
From top to bottom the notes are: Bb, Eb, B, G#, F#, Eb, C, A.
The secret of this tuning is mostly in the diminished chord on the bottom four strings but also the Maj7th note on top offers many chord options.
I do recommend learning how to slant properly and I highly recommend using a bullet bar but you'll find very little need to use slants with this tuning. Good luck, Don |
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Ron Whitfield
From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 7 Jun 2012 5:48 pm
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While I can't think of any tuning that actually requires slanting, slants greatly benefit all of them. I'd be more interested in how slant-friendly this and other Leavitt tunings are so the most could be gotten from them. |
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Dan Simard
From: Quebec, Canada
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Posted 7 Jun 2012 7:35 pm
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Quote: |
I call it the Hawaiian Leavitt tuning. It can be done in C6th/A7th but I do it in B6th/G#7th.
From top to bottom the notes are: Bb, Eb, B, G#, F#, Eb, C, A. |
I saw that tuning in another post and was really interested in it because of the possibilities. But I thought that if I can't master a "simple" tuning like C6, I will have difficulties mastering a complex tuning like Leavitt.
On the other hand, if I master Leavitt, it will be easier to master C6... I don't know.
Quote: |
offers many chord options. |
That's why I bought an 8 strings. My first (higher) string broke and I didn't replaced it yet but I thought of that tuning (low to high) : C# - C - E - G - A - C - E - F# . It gives me a D9 without the tonic on the 4 first strings so maybe it would open the possibilities a little (but maybe not).
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I do recommend learning how to slant properly and I highly recommend using a bullet bar |
I am really grateful that Bill Lake has sent me a bullet bar that I will receive Monday. I will practice slanting as much as I can. The only bar available in town was a Stevens bar so I bought it but I always hated it.
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you'll find very little need to use slants with this tuning |
But isn't slant an important part of lap steel? I consider it as a way to open the possibilities of any tuning but also to make an "effect" that doesn't sound too boring. I think that no matter what my tuning will be, I will use slant the appropriate way...
Thanks a lot for your constructive comment! |
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Greg Booth
From: Anchorage, AK, USA
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Posted 7 Jun 2012 8:39 pm
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Dan, I play dobro and steel guitar. I came to the dobro from PSG and was inclined to use the large bullet nose bar at first but soon realized the techniques employed and refined by master dobro players like Rob Ickes and Jerry Douglas required the profiled bars like the Stevens, Tipton, Scheerhorn etc. Do these guys use slants? You bet! In recent years 13 time dobro player of the year Rob Ickes has been working on using more slants in his playing with beautiful results, and doing it with his sharply pointed Scheerhorn stainless bar. Check out the fantastic slant work in this video of Rob and guitarist Jim Hurst playing "In the Garden". Rob has been known to do backward slants by angling his wrist as well. The bottom line is, if it sounds great and works it will be copied by others and not ridiculed. I'm not saying you should use a Stevens type bar for lap steel but there are many players that do. _________________ Greg
Kathy Kallick Band
www.youtube.com/user/aksliderdobro |
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Ron Whitfield
From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 7 Jun 2012 9:51 pm
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There is so much more to be had using proper bar technique that to do otherwise is setting pointless limits on ability and availability. But to each their own... |
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Mike Neer
From: NJ
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Posted 8 Jun 2012 4:12 am
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There's more than one form of proper technique, as not everyone is coming from a Hawaiian-influenced style.
Not all Western Swing players use slants--in fact, find me a more unorthodox style than Bobby Koefer's--yet he is a master.
Dobro players use a different technique and there are many of them playing lap steel now.
Not everyone will master and use slants as Jerry Byrd did. Slants are important, but they are not absolutely necessary. In fact, there are other things that are more important.
At this point, I'm glad that people are showing an interest in playing steel guitar.
Once folks start enjoying making music on the instrument and listening to more recordings of it, there are plenty of resources available to help them (and us) refine technique--
after all, who amongst us is above learning more about it? I learn more each day that I touch the instrument.
Saying that "to do otherwise is setting pointless limits on ability and availability" is imposing limits; yes, if one would like to play like the masters of the past, then it would be beneficial to learn their technique.
But all that has been done already--I want to hear fresh voices on the instrument. But to each their own, as you so aptly said.
People play the instrument for the love of it--I see no reason to get so anal to the point of discouragement about what to call it and what technique they should use.
As far as the Leavitt tuning, I've always been intrigued by it and uncomfortable with the notion of playing it--that is, until I learned C6.
They are actually not much different, if you think about it.
C6/A7 is: E C A G E C#, hi to low.
Leavitt is: D C Bb G E C# hi to low.
The only differences are on strings 1 and 3. _________________ Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Frank Freniere
From: The First Coast
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Posted 8 Jun 2012 4:54 am
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Mike Neer wrote: |
But to each their own, as you so aptly said. |
"To each his own," actually, or as Dan might say "Chacun a son gout!" |
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Ron Whitfield
From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 8 Jun 2012 5:01 am analogic coming up...
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One of the major beauties of steel is great music can be made with the smallest amount of technical effort, nobody is saying the whole bag of tricks has to be used all the time or anywhere near. My take is having the bag full and just using what's called for, no revolutionary concept there, it's merely being ready and able to access what would otherwise be lost if one can't do some basic move.
The term Master has been diluted to where it doesn't mean what it used to, now it's awarded to anyone that does what they do well enuf to be highly enjoyed by a listener. Koefer, as an example, is great at what he does, and has mastered his particular style. But does that mean he's a legit Master of the steel guitar? In the very narrow scope, I'd bend and say yes, but in the true meaning of the term I doubt there have been but a few beyond JB, and there are those who say nobody was as Byrd was.
Sorry to over-indulge, but it's 3am again and I'm trying to put myself to sleep. |
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Mark Mansueto
From: Michigan, USA
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Posted 8 Jun 2012 5:27 am
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Dan, IMO your playing style should dictate what type of bar you use. In my case I lift the bar a lot to play single notes so I use a stevens style bar. I watched your video and from what I see I think you could benifit by using a bullet bar since your style has the bar on the strings most of the time. I do slants with the stevens and I use what most consider the proper swivel technique but it's more difficult with a stevens. You'll master slants faster using a bullet but single note playing will be more difficult and that's the trade off. _________________ https://markmansueto.bandcamp.com/
https://open.spotify.com/artist/65dQ3EyZC2RaqawA8gPlRy?si=dOdqc5zxSKeJI9cISVVx_A |
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Former Member
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Posted 8 Jun 2012 8:01 am
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This guy has real skills and put in the time to have major cred. --also 2 fine books on Hawaiian steel guitar...(OMG what kind of bar is that??)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m_HkYEohI4
open G.
Here's another great!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKlKJTjIJQE
fast fwd to 2:37
He created this style, and uses different bars..
Don't feel too locked down by "rules" and other peoples opinions...Have fun man! |
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Dan Simard
From: Quebec, Canada
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Posted 8 Jun 2012 8:15 am
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Check out the fantastic slant work in this video of Rob and guitarist Jim Hurst playing "In the Garden". |
That is a really great tune. I would like to play resonator just to play that kind of thing.
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The bottom line is, if it sounds great and works it will be copied by others and not ridiculed. |
On some other instruments, I have my own "techniques" but they came after years of doing it right. I'm just not experienced enough right now to create my own sound... but it will come with time!
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Slants are important, but they are not absolutely necessary. In fact, there are other things that are more important. |
It may sound like I'm obsessed about slants... but I'm not. It's just that sometimes, I feel like I'm travelling too much and it sounds "square". So I figured out that slanting would sound more "soft".
I also like the sound of a resolving suspended chord (like I did on my infamous horrible video).
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Slants are important, but they are not absolutely necessary. In fact, there are other things that are more important. |
The question may sound strange but what do you consider more important?
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As far as the Leavitt tuning, I've always been intrigued by it and uncomfortable with the notion of playing it--that is, until I learned C6. |
Call me a sissy but I chose C6 mostly because of the 6. For a reason I don't understand, I've grown to dislike a 7th chord and now use it only if necessary. Maybe it's because I think that bassists are over-using 7th (I'm primarily a bassist). I find that 7th are rude while 6th are pretty and soft. And 6th are pretty uncommon in popular music.
On the Leavitt tuning, I see a 7th as default : C-Bb-G-E (C7) and G-E-C# (A7 without a tonic), D-C (barely a 7th).
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"To each his own," actually, or as Dan might say "Chacun a son gout!" |
I would even say "ร chacun son goรปt!" with all the fancy accents that you don't have on your keyboard
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You'll master slants faster using a bullet but single note playing will be more difficult and that's the trade off. |
I'll have a bullet bar on Monday! The real problem I have with Stevens bar is that it's "falling" when I slant so I ended up breaking my wrist to keep it on its feet. |
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b0b
From: Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 8 Jun 2012 8:53 am
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There's a 3-note slant/twist that I use a lot on C6th. It uses the middle G and both C strings to get a 9th chord, like this:
Tab: |
F9th chord
E ____________________________________
C ___7---------------9________________
A ____\_____________/_________________
G _____8-----------8__________________
E ______\_________/___________________
C _______9-------7____________________ |
You keep the b7 note of the chord steady on the middle string. The top note changes from the 9th of the chord to the 3rd and, at the same time, the bottom note changes from 3rd of the chord to the 9th.
Of course, either slant works well for a 9th chord, without the fancy twist action.
You'll have a lot more control over slants if you learn to do them with your fingers instead of with your wrist. _________________ -๐๐๐- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Mike Neer
From: NJ
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Posted 8 Jun 2012 9:02 am
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Bob, same slant works on strings 1, 3 and 5 for 7th chords:
Tab: |
____11(Eb)_____13(F)______
__________________________
____12(A)______12(A)______
__________________________
____13(F)______11(Eb)_____
__________________________
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Notice the 7th and the root trading places.
Dan, to answer your question: I find intonation, articulation and rhythm to be more important in sounding good. You get that happening and then you can work the big slants in. 2 note slants should be a priority before tackling 3 note slants. _________________ Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Dan Simard
From: Quebec, Canada
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Posted 8 Jun 2012 11:34 am
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Quote: |
There's a 3-note slant/twist that I use a lot on C6th. It uses the middle G and both C strings to get a 9th chord |
Which software did you use to write those tabs?
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You keep the b7 note of the chord steady on the middle string. The top note changes from the 9th of the chord to the 3rd and, at the same time, the bottom note changes from 3rd of the chord to the 9th. |
I realize that I'm not ready for that kind of slant but it's good to know that they exist. In fact, I think I saw a video and the guy used it and I was amazed by the sound of it.
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I find intonation, articulation and rhythm to be more important in sounding good |
Hmmm... these are really subjective but I still think you're right. Being a bassist/rhythm guitarist/drummer, I never really soloed before (or being another thing than the fundation of a song) and when I do, I don't have these elements. I'm not even sure what a "lick" means (subject of a future post).
I read (and re-read) your posts about improvising but I still sound like "playing notes one after the other". _________________ Tremblay 8 strings |
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b0b
From: Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 8 Jun 2012 12:09 pm
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b0b wrote: |
There's a 3-note slant/twist that I use a lot on C6th. It uses the middle G and both C strings to get a 9th chord |
Dan Simard wrote: |
Which software did you use to write those tabs? |
I just typed it into the message editor here on the forum. I don't use any special tab-creating software. _________________ -๐๐๐- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Doug Beaumier
From: Northampton, MA
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Don McClellan
From: California/Thailand
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Posted 8 Jun 2012 7:02 pm
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Dan and others, There are some old recordings I did several years ago (and posted on the forum before) using the "Hawaiian Leavitt" tuning in another post below. (this one didn't work). I used no slants in any of these tunes. Sorry about the Christmas tune in June I'm not sure if I'm way late or way early Don
Last edited by Don McClellan on 9 Jun 2012 8:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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b0b
From: Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Doug Beaumier
From: Northampton, MA
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Don McClellan
From: California/Thailand
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Posted 8 Jun 2012 8:01 pm
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Bob, I'm not familiar with Soundcloud what did I do wrong and how do I fix it? Thanks, Don |
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Mike Neer
From: NJ
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Posted 8 Jun 2012 8:34 pm
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Don, you have to get the link of your file--on the file there should be a little button that says "Share". From there you can get the link, too. _________________ Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Don McClellan
From: California/Thailand
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Doug Beaumier
From: Northampton, MA
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Don McClellan
From: California/Thailand
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Posted 9 Jun 2012 7:35 pm
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Thanks Doug. The reason I am comfortable with the Leavitt tuning is because of the way I configure it. If a player is already familiar with the common C6/A7 six string tuning all they need to do is add a Maj7 note (B) on top and a dominant 7th note (Bb) on the bottom making it an eight string tuning. Its easy to get used to and is an outstanding tuning as far as the wide range of chords these extra notes give you. Try it. Don |
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Mike Neer
From: NJ
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Posted 13 Jun 2012 9:48 am
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Don, I enjoyed listening to your tracks. It seems you can get a lot of mileage out of the Leavitt tuning. Someday I'll have to try and wrap my head around it. _________________ Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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